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Martin Audio VRS800 18" driver recommendations

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Pinyorouk View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pinyorouk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Martin Audio VRS800 18" driver recommendations
    Posted: 01 December 2016 at 7:31pm
Hi. I have some Martin Audio VRS800's which I am in the process of refurbishing. Unfortunately 1 of the 18 inch drivers is rubbing and the other has a slipped magnet so reconing is not an option. The original drivers are B18-1000 which had a double suspension.  I read somewhere that a FTR18-4080 would be a good alternative but i am unsure which one as there are 3 varients:

Edit: This is the thread I was referring to:
http://forum.speakerplans.com/martin-f1-bass-box_topic31739_page2.html

Maybe someone could even recommend a known suitable alternative as I was trying to avoid the higher power drivers as it would mean I would need to get another amp. The B18-1000 was specced as 300W RMS 600W peak in this box.

Edit: I have a more powerful sutitable amp that I could use if necessary.

Edit: I have been able to find the T/S parameters of the original driver, B18-1000:

Power Handling: 1000w
Highest X-over Freq (Hz) 300
Voice coil diameter (mm) 100
Voice coil Lenght (mm) 19.0
Mag.Grap Flux Density (T) 1.33
Mag.Gap Depth (mm) 9.5
Mag. Weight (oz) 126
Average Sensivity (dB / w @ 1m) 98

Thiele-Small Parameters

Free Air Resonance (fs, Hz) 30.0
DC Resistance 5.8
Effective Diameter (d, m) 0.38
Equivalent Volume (Vas, I) 345
Total Moving Mass (Mmt, m) 147
Electrical Q 0.306
Mechanical (Qms) 5.76
Total Q (Qts) 0.291
BI product 22.9
xmax 6.5mm
Depth (mm) 202
Net Weight (kg) 15.0



Thanks,

Mike

FTR18-4080F 600W 18" Driver 8 Ohm

Specifications:

<ul ="with_dots"="">

  • Nominal diameter
    457mm/18in
  • Power rating
    600W RMS
  • Nominal impedance
    8 Ohms
  • Sensitivity
    97dB
  • Frequency range
    30-3000Hz
  • Voice coil diameter
    100mm/4in
  • Chassis type
    Cast Aluminium
  • Magnet type
    Ferrite
  • Coil material
    Round copper
  • Former material
    Glass fibre
  • Cone material
    Glass loaded paper with weather-resistant
    impregnation
  • Surround material
    Cloth-sealed
  • Suspension
    Single
  • Xmax
    6mm/0.24in
  • Gap depth
    10mm/0.39in
  • Voice coil winding width
    22mm/0.87in
  • Magnet weight
    3.1kg/110oz



  • Small Signal Parameters:

    <ul ="with_dots"="">
  • D
    0.38m/14.96in
  • Fs
    32.7Hz
  • Mms
    158.22g/5.58oz
  • Mmd
    136.61g/4.82oz
  • Qms
    5.24
  • Qes
    0.32
  • Qts
    0.30
  • Re
    5.31 Ohms
  • Vas
    271.99lt/9.6ft3
  • Bl
    23.31Tm
  • Cms
    0.15mm/N
  • Rms
    6.21kg/s
  • Le (at 1kHz)
    1.46mH



  • FTR18-4080FD 1000W 18" Driver 8 ohm
    Specifications:

    <ul ="with_dots"="">

  • Nominal diameter
    457mm/18in
  • Power rating
    1000W RMS
  • Nominal impedance
    8 Ohms
  • Sensitivity
    97dB
  • Frequency range
    35-2500Hz
  • Voice coil diameter
    100mm/4in
  • Chassis type
    Cast Aluminium
  • Magnet type
    Ferrite
  • Coil material
    Round copper
  • Former material
    Glass fibre
  • Cone material
    Glass loaded paper with weather-resistant
    impregnation
  • Surround material
    Cloth-sealed
  • Suspension
    Double
  • Xmax
    6mm/0.24in
  • Gap depth
    10mm/0.39in
  • Voice coil winding width
    22mm/0.87in
  • Magnet weight
    3.1kg/110oz



  • Small Signal Parameters:

    <ul ="with_dots"="">

  • D
    0.38m/14.96in
  • Fs
    34.3Hz
  • Mms
    126.39g
  • Mmd
    112.24
  • Qms
    4.33
  • Qes
    0.29
  • Qts
    0.27
  • Re
    5.39 Ohms
  • Vas
    395.56lt/13.96ft3
  • Bl
    22.88Tm
  • Cms
    0.22mm/N
  • Rms
    6.506kg/s
  • Le (at 1kHz)
    1.41mH


  • FTR18-4080HDX 1000W 18" Driver 8 Ohm
    Specifications:

    <ul ="with_dots"="">
  • Nominal diameter 457mm/18in
  • Power rating 1000Wrms
  • Nominal impedance 8Ω
  • Sensitivity 95dB
  • Frequency range 30-2500Hz
  • Voice coil diameter 100mm/4in
  • Chassis type Cast aluminium
  • Magnet type Ferrite
  • Magnet weight 3.1kg/110oz
  • Coil material Round copper
  • Former material Glass Fibre
  • Cone material Glass loaded paper with weather-resistant impregnation
  • Surround material Cloth-sealed
  • Suspension Double
  • Xmax3 8mm/0.33in
  • Gap depth 9.5mm/0.37in
  • Voice coil winding width 25mm/0.99in



  • Small Signal Parameters:

    <ul ="with_dots"="">
  • D 0.38m/14.96in
  • Fs 35.5Hz
  • Mms 199.02g/7.025oz
  • Mmd 177.41g/6.26oz
  • Qms 5.74
  • Qes 0.46
  • Qts 0.42
  • Re 5.01Ω
  • Vas 184.24lt/6.5ft3
  • BI 22.11Tm
  • Cms 0.10mm/N
  • Rms 7.72kg/s
  • Le (at 1kHz)




  • Edited by Pinyorouk - 02 December 2016 at 11:15am
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    Pinyorouk View Drop Down
    Young Croc
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pinyorouk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2016 at 11:16am
    I have updated the post with the parameters for the Celestion B18-1000. The driver will be used in a horn application. Thanks.
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    Pinyorouk View Drop Down
    Young Croc
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pinyorouk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2016 at 1:56pm
    I have been told by a very reliable source that the FTR are not as good as the Original Celestions that were made in the UK years ago. I will no longer need help with selecting a driver within that range. Thanks
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    madboffin View Drop Down
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madboffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2016 at 7:49pm
    I think all Celestion stuff is made in China now, they closed UK production years ago (and dumped the workforce).
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    Young Croc
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pinyorouk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2016 at 5:03am
    So Madoffin, that leads us to the next question, what driver please
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    Jimmer View Drop Down
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2016 at 8:12am
    I used the rcf L18s801, but found it a little honky higher up. I then switched to a custom ATC remanufacture of the original Celestion driver, I was much happier. If I was looking again I would look at sticking the BMS 18S430v2 in them. I use these in some reflex cabs and did try them in the Martin F1b..... they worked very very well. Good luck on your quest, they will be a lovely set of full range speakers
    Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!
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    Young Croc
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pinyorouk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2016 at 1:05pm
    Hi Jimmer. Thank you very much for your reply and suggestions. I didn't know that ATC remanufactured the original Celestion, interesting. Will look into purchasing the driver you suggested. I am pleased that the project will be worthwhile, thanks once again.

    Edited by Pinyorouk - 03 December 2016 at 1:05pm
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    Young Croc
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pinyorouk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2016 at 1:33pm
    Originally posted by Jimmer Jimmer wrote:

    I used the rcf L18s801, but found it a little honky higher up. I then switched to a custom ATC remanufacture of the original Celestion driver, I was much happier. If I was looking again I would look at sticking the BMS 18S430v2 in them. I use these in some reflex cabs and did try them in the Martin F1b..... they worked very very well. Good luck on your quest, they will be a lovely set of full range speakers


    Hi Jimmer, I looked into the BMS 18S430v2 and noticed that the upper frequency range is 200Hz. A suggestion was made that the RCF L18P300 would be a good alternative. My 12 inch drivers would come in around 220Hz so I am wondering if the RCF would be a better option as it's upper range is 1000Hz. I wish someone could compare the specifications of the two and see which one would suit this 3 way enclosure with horn loaded ported bass. Unfortunately I do not understand the T/S parameters but would like to look for the most suitable, affordable driver. I am sure there are members who could help Thanks

    Edited by Pinyorouk - 03 December 2016 at 1:34pm
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tv00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2016 at 5:25pm
    Hello, my reconer fixes some slipped magnets and recenters scratching coils (if contact glue it can be dissolved & re-glued)

    Also take a look at this driver, strong motor, light cone, cheap price:

    Resonant frequency (fs)

    30 Hz
    Rec. crossov. frequ. (fmax.) (12 dB/oct.)-
    Power rating (PRMS)500 WRMS
    Peak music power output (PMAX)1,000 WMAX
    Sensitivity101 dB/W/m
    Max. rated SPL-
    Max. voltage-
    Radiation angle-
    Suspension compl. (Cms)0.17 mm/N
    Moving mass (Mms)160 g
    Mech. Q factor (Qms)8.08
    Electr. Q factor (Qes)0.28
    Total Q factor (Qts)0.27
    Equivalent volume (Vas)333 l
    DC resistance (Re)5.7 Ω
    Force factor (BxL)25 Tm



    Edited by tv00 - 03 December 2016 at 5:25pm
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pinyorouk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2016 at 5:33pm
    Originally posted by tv00 tv00 wrote:

    Hello, my reconer fixes some slipped magnets and recenters scratching coils (if contact glue it can be dissolved & re-glued)

    Also take a look at this driver, strong motor, light cone, cheap price:





    Hi, thank you very much. What is the model number of the driver please? If your reconer could fix my drivers slipped magnet it would really make my life easier. Could you please put me in touch with your reconer so that I can see whether it can be fixed. Have some time next week to travel so distance isn't an issue. Thanks.

    Edited by Pinyorouk - 03 December 2016 at 5:34pm
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tv00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2016 at 7:23pm
    LOL, I don't know if I dare tell you:
    It's the IMG Stage Line SP-46/500PA steel-chassis:-)
    But it costs more than I think a driver of that kind should, perhaps you can get a nice offer, I got 4 hardly used for nothing in a trade (gone).
    On the good side is relatively light weight.

    I'm in Denmark, so is my reconer.
    But there's people in UK fixing slid magnets I know for sure!
    I'm not sure all reconers know the trick of dissolving a kit, but they should be able to do it, I saved a few drivers by re-centering that way.



    Edited by tv00 - 03 December 2016 at 7:24pm
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tv00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2016 at 7:25pm
    http://www.oberton.com/en/?option=com_content&view=article&id=163:18b450&catid=49:ferrite-loudspeakers

    Edit: no, this one:
    http://www.oberton.com/en/products/ferrite-loudspeakers/162-18b500.html

    Fs
    Qms
    Qes
    Qts
    Vas
    Mms
    Re
    Sd
    Xmax*
    Cms
    BL 
    Le at 1kHz 

    34.90 Hz
    9.24
    0.284
    0.275
    243.91 Litress
    146.79 grams
    5.10 Ohms
    1110 cm2
    ± 8.75 mm
    0.142 mm/N
    24.06 T.m
    1.37 mH




    Edited by tv00 - 03 December 2016 at 7:27pm
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