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Mini Scoops - Reality check

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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2017 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by m0gsi m0gsi wrote:

Have you got a test location toasty?



Scoop guys always bang on about in a dance being the only place o test so lets do it there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JBK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2017 at 2:54pm
Well taking measurements is one thing, interpreting them is another thing (it has already be mentionned hundreds of time here), but I'd love to see measeurements from scoops outdoors to avoid funny room cancellations. 

As i previously stated with a minimum setup one can benchmark a pre amp, many have done it. Seeing that it's not flat is a fact
Now seeing a preamp response that is far from flat, and saying "it's not flat so it's shit and the users are idiots" is an opinion. You can like the sound even if it's not flat, just a matter of personal preference (also the style played etc)
The problem I think is that people express opinions as if there were facts and the fact that we don't have body langage, intonations, and that english is not everyones first langage here does not help so people tend to vex/get offended or go on their high horses a bit easily. This is I think due to the fact that we love sound so much we tend to get emotional... That's a good thing imho!

In aspect to the "trolling/ social media" part, I think it is not necessary putting every scoop owner ,or preamp owner, or people who play the same musical style in the same basket ("scoop guys says this", "scoop guys do this", well I'm a scoop guy but never say that). I find this very condescending, in a broader sense it's like saying all french peole smell, it's just so stupid.... 

... or do I smell that bad? Embarrassed


Edited by JBK - 12 January 2017 at 2:55pm
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2017 at 5:27pm
Sorry I don't see where I've ever said that - I've measured pres and presented the info as is. Frankly if a roots sound plays without a pre at all I'm surprised, it's a core part of the entire experience.

Having measured a few does however help me achieve a similar-ish result if a roots act plays on a 'normal' PA we have provided as I can recreate some of the EQ etc.

And if all scoops are measured in the same environment, albeit different placement, with real scoop music, I can't see it being any fairer in the eyes of the owners as that is how they use them - and sometimes take great pains to point out! So, anybody game to get a hall in London or somewhere and put a four box setup to the test?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kurt718 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2017 at 3:03am
Hey Im curious about the Overton woofers and what are the prices like I live in the USA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2017 at 9:07am
Originally posted by hi grade hi grade wrote:

Can't see you getting the best results from shortman mini scoop using fk1 mid bass !
what is wrong with a f118 kick-fill?

Originally posted by kurt718 kurt718 wrote:

Hey Im curious about the Overton woofers and what are the prices like I live in the USA

it's called Oberton, perhaps that helps with finding. also try at toutlehautparleur.

Generally I wonder why we are talking about preamp outputs now? Where does this topic comes from now?
Are you people just clicking around the threads and post your random thoughts just right where you at in the moment they come to mind? ...something is going wrong here ^^
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B_Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2017 at 9:41am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Sorry I don't see where I've ever said that - I've measured pres and presented the info as is. Frankly if a roots sound plays without a pre at all I'm surprised, it's a core part of the entire experience.

But you're just going to prove that roots systems are about as linear as a maplin boom box, and that's the way they like it. 

As you said, it's a core part of the entire experience!

 It's why people say vinyl "sounds better", it's the distortion people like, a bit like tape saturation or tube saturation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2017 at 10:19am
Agreed. Futile argument as per my post ages ago. Give it up FFS
It's everything, not everythink!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luton_soundman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2017 at 12:23pm
Lol even when tony wilkes and other well respected professionals disagreed with that statement when he heard my system at gp. Go and hear ren a.p.s system. No idea why half of you k ow it all pa guys post in the scoop forum when you have never used a decent scoop in your life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2017 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by luton_soundman luton_soundman wrote:

Lol even when tony wilkes and other well respected professionals disagreed with that statement when he heard my system at gp. Go and hear ren a.p.s system. No idea why half of you k ow it all pa guys post in the scoop forum when you have never used a decent scoop in your life.


Because i agree with you guys - I love scoops of all kinds and roots dances are my favourite thing to attend when I'm not working. I also like showing data on things so people can make informed opinions and also know why different things behave the way they do. A measurement session in a proper dance is my idea of fun, and would probably help out this endless cycle to bed.

I also don't expect to get linear measurements, that's the point! Most PAs aren't linear either, can't remember the last show I went to that didn't at least have a +6 to A+12dB tilt from HF to LF.

Edited by toastyghost - 13 January 2017 at 6:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jammin75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2017 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by luton_soundman luton_soundman wrote:

Lol even when tony wilkes and other well respected professionals disagreed with that statement when he heard my system at gp. Go and hear ren a.p.s system. No idea why half of you k ow it all pa guys post in the scoop forum when you have never used a decent scoop in your life.


Clap  yes all theory and no practical go to a few dances an see feel hear what go on LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2017 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by luton_soundman luton_soundman wrote:

Lol even when tony wilkes and other well respected professionals disagreed with that statement when he heard my system at gp. Go and hear ren a.p.s system. No idea why half of you k ow it all pa guys post in the scoop forum when you have never used a decent scoop in your life.


I have. I built the first MS18 mk1 on FSP and Mk2. I tested the V1200 in them. I've built MS18 mk3, loaded with 186 4r. They are still out there. I also trialed with Staip a Micro with 18 and the Cyclops with the first of the new breed of Fane Primes.
They are shit for PA. Too lazy, too much need for kick cabs as they sound horrid over 90hz.
They are wonderful for Reggae/Roots. It was simple for me to test, play Reggae, Play other music.
I even had two four way stacks of MS18 Mk2, ES18, MT130.  Utterly horrid on Pop, Disco and Rock. Guess what, played Reggae fine. IF mini scoops or for that matter scoops were an option for across the board PA they would be used by touring companies, they could half the amp and mains power they needed to run their 2x18's, they don't.
I love scoopy things, I love your passion, but there are much better options for making a living with general PA. Even the most prominent scoopist on here uses 18 reflex for Disco Dave hires.

 Back to original post:  Replacing the X1,s with minis. OK, may I suggest:

 http://hornplans.free.fr/ms46.html

 As much as they are no use to me, I want to try this combo in the summer, you see, the scoops, they are a drug :)

And yes there will be an exception all the above, someone will be using scoops for PA somewhere, that's lifeYin Yang
It's everything, not everythink!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2017 at 7:45pm
Didn't Tony have a bunch of historic installs with scoops on the sub? And bands on a Polar Bear is actually really good, the bigger issue with them I find is vocal range coming out of a 'kick' bin. If you had a full face foamed grille on those I think some engineers would just test em as a218
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