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MT-121 Not completly Satisfied - Mysteries

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LeruSound View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 November 2015 at 6:34pm
Hi, i am almost new in here. I read some topics about MT 121 and i discovered many discordant opinions.
Tell you what is now driving my MTs 121. (mean simplified version)

I use 12MB700 from 18sound and 1" driver ND1070 from 18sound too. 
I personally designed a passive crossover for them, using 1650 Hz cut or something around it. It is 2 order Bessel, so 12 dB/oct. I think the crossover is well built, but i could discuss also this. The lower electonic cut is 180 Hz. 

First it sounds good to me, but know i think there could be some problems. The 12MB700 looks almost, fixed, motionless when i play it. It sounds less loud than the driver and i can imagine why, but in overall, i think that from it i got not enough dynamics. it seems there's something wrong. I would like to hear good reverbereted snares from it, impact sounds that i think could be exist in x over point, so from 140 to 200 hz and maybe above. 

So looking the plan advices i noticed that the P audio SN12B/SN12MB is completaly another kind of driver. 
12MB700 looks like a perfect copy of 12PE32 from B&C. 
Some calculations told me that that the Paudio SN12MB works better in that small chamber as a closed enclousure with a horn in front, i mean cause of its lower Vas and higer Qts. 
I was looking around and i found a good replacement for my 12MB700, and it is B&C 12PLB100, it is more similar to the P audio one, and it gives me also lower response, my only misgiving is that it looks like a stronger driver, 4 inches (100mm) VoiceCoil Diameter, but also an higer BL., but a less sensitivity. It seems that every parameter describes it more like a MIDBASS/WOOFER than a Higher midbass.

Some other simulations tolds me that the HORN for the 12" driver looks cutted below 1kHz, and it seems strange that in teh plan is suggested to plase X-over in 1,6 kHz. I heard voices from sound experts telling that the horn could handle an X-over below 1kHz, around 700 Hz. I'm quite satisfied with them, but i now need to know the truth :D 

I give u my "spartan" simulation down here. Hope someone could help me..
It was cutted with 180 190 Hz that time..




Edited by LeruSound - 30 November 2015 at 6:43pm
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levyte357- View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2015 at 6:46pm
MT121 performance, is "very" driver dependant.

IMHO, bad mistake pairing 12" with 1" in this box.

B&C12PE32, and many others with decent 2",  sound wondrous in this cab.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room!!".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeruSound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2015 at 6:52pm
So, your advice is to copuling a good 2" driver and let everything as it is? 
I'm trying to avoid critical changes. If i could remake my MT121 i would liek to use a 2" driver, capable to handle 800Hz. But i hope that could be another way to solve. I'm searching for a good 12". Also PE32 gives bas response below 190 180 Hz in closed enclousure..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2015 at 7:10pm
Same thinking as Lev.... the 1" won't cut it against a decent 12".
Use at least a 1,5" driver with cross around 1200-1300 Hz or a 2" driver if you wan't to drop lower than that, but that also requires a somewhat large horn to keep dispersion under control.


Edited by Peter Jan - 30 November 2015 at 7:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2015 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by LeruSound LeruSound wrote:

So, your advice is to copuling a good 2" driver and let everything as it is? 
I'm trying to avoid critical changes. If i could remake my MT121 i would liek to use a 2" driver, capable to handle 800Hz. But i hope that could be another way to solve. I'm searching for a good 12". Also PE32 gives bas response below 190 180 Hz in closed enclousure..


Personally wouldn't run 2" lower than 1.6khz.

Don't be afraid to try settings that differ from what the masses say, e.g. 12" upto 1.6khz, and cross with 2".

Different drivers, different slopes, different flattening eq, give differing results.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeruSound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2015 at 7:17pm
so, Basically, which driver would u reccomand me?

For now i will go with 1" driver, so for now, which driver could behave better in this cab config?

I would like it sound good and could cover 180 Hz cut propelly. It seems mine does not work as it should.


Edited by LeruSound - 30 November 2015 at 7:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2015 at 7:18pm
Yup, try many different settings and see/hear what it does.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2015 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by Peter Jan Peter Jan wrote:

S
Use at least a 1,5" driver with cross around 1200-1300 Hz or a 2" driver if you wan't to drop lower than that, but that also requires a somewhat large horn to keep dispersion under control.


Yep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2015 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by LeruSound LeruSound wrote:

so, Basically, which driver would u reccomand me?

From personal experience I tend to favor B&C types.
Others may prefer different brand/types.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeruSound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2015 at 7:33pm
I would try many different drivers, but it is something i could not afford for now. That's why i'm trying to look for a good one, that can give me the lower end response. 
What do u think about 12MB700? 
B&C
12PLB100? 12PLB76? 12FW76?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2015 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by LeruSound LeruSound wrote:

I would try many different drivers, but it is something i could not afford for now. That's why i'm trying to look for a good one, that can give me the lower end response. 
What do u think about 12MB700? 
B&C
12PLB100? 12PLB76? 12FW76?


Where are you based, and which brand of drivers are best priced for you to buy?

In UK, nice budget driver is Fane 12MB, plenty of low end in MT121, top end extension not as good as PD 123ER or others.

Paudio SN12B very sensitive, but low Xmax, so can't run too low.

Celestion TN1230 sounds apparently very good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeruSound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2015 at 8:29pm
My only guidelines are B&C, 18Sound and RCF. 
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