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Neodymium drivers in Scoops

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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 6:08pm
I simulated them in out M4.18 boxes.
Marjan Milosevic
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bass*en*mass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bass*en*mass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 6:44pm
wild guess marjan - those cabs rely on a softer driver for best performance within passband?
18ds115 should shine in big/long FLHs or low tuned Scoops though?
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 9:53pm
Alex, that depends on what you want to achieve.
Here is how our 9601 variant compares to the DS115 in a 2.7m long FLH.
100lit back chamber, 650cm2 throath, 5000cm2 mouth.
Left is the DS115, right is our 9601 variant.
This is both in 0.5 corner loaded.
So as you can see both have that deep exactly where the drum kick is and the response is quite similar.
But the DS115 has both lower power handling, and sensitivity. Judging by the spec only, DS115 should have around 2db advantage, but in reality is the opposite.


Marjan Milosevic
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Sypa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sypa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 12:02am
Is it a bussines secret to know what is different from the mm9601 to the regular one ? Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bass*en*mass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 12:46am
i guess its the C, carbon fibre reinforced, version?

btw. marjan, would you share displacement/excursion too :)


Edited by bass*en*mass - 18 May 2017 at 12:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turbo7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 7:00am
i can only take the standard 9601 for comparision, and in 100L backchamber, 2,7m long horn, 3 litre frontchamber,
the standard 9601 has a little more sensivity, excursion compared to DS18 is way higher ( nearly 4mm ) and it already should have a higher linear x-max than the 9601 and much stronger motor... in my books the DS18 is the mechanically most stable driver for scoop or flh and should sound very clean and tight in the very deep frequency range, final judgement will most probably be the power handling and power compression. DS18 has lots of room for EQ. I have used 9600 in scoops for 5-6 years and i like it very much, but still the motor could be a bit stronger to give more freedom for EQ. 9600 starts loosing control to quick and the DS18 is the opposite, its all down to thermal issues. I am with Marjan ( like so often ) in this case, it depends on what is wanted, thermal or mechanical stability.




Edited by turbo7 - 18 May 2017 at 7:46am
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 11:20am
Stronger the motor, bigger that deep at 50-60hz becomes.
Marjan Milosevic
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by Sypa Sypa wrote:

Is it a bussines secret to know what is different from the mm9601 to the regular one ? Smile

A bit different suspension against the stock 9601.
The difference is in the stiffness of the surround and a bit stronger glue is used at the cone surround joint. 

We are using this OEM driver even before 9601 made public. 
Marjan Milosevic
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by turbo7 turbo7 wrote:

i can only take the standard 9601 for comparision, and in 100L backchamber, 2,7m long horn, 3 litre frontchamber,
the standard 9601 has a little more sensivity, excursion compared to DS18 is way higher ( nearly 4mm ) and it already should have a higher linear x-max than the 9601 and much stronger motor... in my books the DS18 is the mechanically most stable driver for scoop or flh and should sound very clean and tight in the very deep frequency range, final judgement will most probably be the power handling and power compression. DS18 has lots of room for EQ. I have used 9600 in scoops for 5-6 years and i like it very much, but still the motor could be a bit stronger to give more freedom for EQ. 9600 starts loosing control to quick and the DS18 is the opposite, its all down to thermal issues. I am with Marjan ( like so often ) in this case, it depends on what is wanted, thermal or mechanical stability.



Yes it look like the DS115 have less displacement, but since 9601 is almost 2db more sensitive, you will need about 35-40% less power to get the same spl levels. Also 9601 has 70mm peak to peak excursion, compared to DS115 of 60mm. So x-max wont be issue for both of them.

What i would idealy like to see is a driver with less BL, something about 28, but with 15-16mm x-max. Such driver will not have that big deep at 50-60hz where the excursion is at its max.
Sure it will require a bit bigger chamber, or longer horn to get as low as the 35+ BL driver, but in general will have much greater impact and sound much faster.

Marjan Milosevic
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JR.junior View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JR.junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 hours 2 minutes ago at 8:20am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Stronger the motor, bigger that deep at 50-60hz becomes.


yes, so you have to reduce throat size, it's smoots out.
Support the scoop technology, larger mouth plays louder!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turbo7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 hours 5 minutes ago at 1:17pm
"
Yes it look like the DS115 have less displacement, but since 9601 is almost 2db more sensitive, you will need about 35-40% less power to get the same spl levels. Also 9601 has 70mm peak to peak excursion, compared to DS115 of 60mm. So x-max wont be issue for both of them.

"

Does it really matter how much peak to peak excursion a drivers has... i do prefer to run drivers inbetween the linear xmax, parameters start to change if this value is exceeded.

I would also say that the DS115 is a driver for stacks of 4+, and the dip in 45-65hz will flatten out the more speakers are stacked.

I have a driver here, xmax = 13mm, BL = 27, QTS = 0.3, something in the range what you have suggested. It has absolutly NOT more impact in a scoop, not at all, its in fact way quieter but sounds better in singles and small stacks due to a more linear frequency response. If it comes to power handling, it looses control way earlier than a more damped driver
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 13 minutes ago at 1:09am
Originally posted by JR.junior JR.junior wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Stronger the motor, bigger that deep at 50-60hz becomes.


yes, so you have to reduce throat size, it's smoots out.

Yes, by killing few dbs on the low end.
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
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https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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