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PD186's over excursion and hot of Proline 3000
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tcourtneyvincent View Drop Down
Young Croc
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    Posted: 26 November 2014 at 10:23pm
Have a got a Proline 3000 here which we use to power 4 ES18's loaded with PD186's. Now i have read that at full whack this amp has been bench tested to do 2k a side a 4ohm, so 1k a driver MAX.
Now the problem im having is that the drivers in our kicks get too hot for my liking well before the clip light comes on? 
After the amp last came out of repair the amp repair man said there was a small amount of DC on the outputs but it wasnt enough to worry about. Maybe it is worth worrying about, since the drivers are getting hot and we popped one of them a while back from over excursion even though we never went near the clip light.... . Or am i being overly cautious about the temp of our magnet? But that still doesnt explain the over excursion as i have limiters set so the amp cant clip anyway!
When i say hot i dont mean to hot to touch, but defiantly hotter than 'warm' if that makes sense haha
Can anyone relate the too and put it down to an amp fault or do i just need to man up and push it harder?

Cheers
Tom



Edited by tcourtneyvincent - 26 November 2014 at 10:27pm
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cravings View Drop Down
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Points: 7442 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2014 at 10:33pm
i've got no experience with the amp.. but where is your high pass? that could explain over excursion before amp clipping..

and out of curiosity.. how do you know your drivers are hot? are the cabs getting hot?
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odc04r View Drop Down
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Few things here you might be confusing.

If drivers are getting hot it is due to the average sustained power. With kick bass you are not getting as much physical excursion as lower frequencies (depending on music played of course but this is likely as a general rule). If the drivers are better cooled by larger excursion (driving more air through the voice coil) then you can see why they might get hot as you have the worst of a situation. Being hot is not necessarily a problem, but you will hit diminishing returns as your coils warm up due to power compression (the coils get more resistive). If they are too hot to touch without burning skin you may want to back off a little, but they are probably ok. Just let them cool down before you start moving them.

Just because your amplifiers are not clipping, does not mean you can't pop a driver due to physical excursion. That depends totally on the driver, the enclosure, the music you play, and the voltage of the signal being applied to the driver.
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michel29 View Drop Down
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Points: 55 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michel29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2014 at 10:35pm
one PD186 was dead ?

a amount of DC current in this speaker
5 volts ?
more ?

only when amplifier is hot ?
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michel29 View Drop Down
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Points: 55 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michel29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2014 at 10:38pm
speaker burned ?
or break ?
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Andy Kos View Drop Down
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Points: 3038 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Kos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2014 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by odc04r odc04r wrote:


Just because your amplifiers are not clipping, does not mean you can't pop a driver due to physical excursion. That depends totally on the driver, the enclosure, the music you play, and the voltage of the signal being applied to the driver.

My life would be sooo much simpler if everyone understood this...
just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk
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tcourtneyvincent View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

i've got no experience with the amp.. but where is your high pass? that could explain over excursion before amp clipping..

and out of curiosity.. how do you know your drivers are hot? are the cabs getting hot?

We run them 75hz - 180hz so no chance of over excursion there. The cabs are BPH's with the driver mounted in reverse so you can touch the magnet in the horn path.
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tcourtneyvincent View Drop Down
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Originally posted by michel29 michel29 wrote:

one PD186 was dead ?

a amount of DC current in this speaker
5 volts ?
more ?

only when amplifier is hot ?

Yep one pd186 just stopped working mid gig. Couldnt tell you the any more about the DC as i have no idea, the amp man just said there was a small amount not worth looking into
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Andy Kos View Drop Down
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Points: 3038 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Kos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2014 at 10:53pm
Its quite normal for drivers to get 'hot' to the touch. A modern driver, with fibreglass coil former and high temperature enamel on the copper wire should be able to cope with atleast 150 degrees celsius, probably more. A lot of that heat will get transferred to the magnet and chassis, so easily reach a temperature that you shouldnt be touching with bare skin.
just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk
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bitSmasher View Drop Down
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Originally posted by tcourtneyvincent tcourtneyvincent wrote:

We run them 75hz - 180hz so no chance of over excursion there
Are you limiting properly?
Just because an amp has measured at x Watts continuous, doesn't stop it putting out much more than that in a spike
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tcourtneyvincent View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Points: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tcourtneyvincent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2014 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by michel29 michel29 wrote:

speaker burned ?
or break ?

These are Paulies words from the recone he did to the PD186 

'lead wire failure at the joint inside the coil, it looks as if it's had serious jolt of power to burn the driver at this point. The middle of the coil itself is fairly dark too meaning it's been exposed to a an element of DC at some point.'

Now we got these drive second hand so i dont know if we cause the darkness or the people we got them off....


Edited by tcourtneyvincent - 26 November 2014 at 10:55pm
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Andy Kos View Drop Down
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Points: 3038 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Kos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2014 at 10:58pm
Slight blackening of enamel can be cumulative over year and years of use. There is no way to detect this when you buy a second hand speaker, it just means the driver has been pushed hard on a regular basis, but not quite hard enough to kill it. All it needs is something to finish the job and it will die..
just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk
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