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robotnation View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 January 2006 at 2:49pm

ok, so i have enough money to get a fair amount of plywood, 2 speakon jacks, those 2 eminence drivers the 15 sf or whatever they are, and i am ready to purchase what i need, but i need aBIT of help on two things.

1) i am in america, and here plywood is measured in inches.  I can convert mm easy and am not worried about looking stupid with a calculator in lowes, but even after converting i am pretty sure our wood wont be quite the same thickness.  could someone help me out with what sizes i need and how many pieces of each, so i can go buy my wood this saturday (also what type of wood to get, in case i dont find scandinavian birch or whatever that stuff is)

2) what tool do i need to cut angles? what i mean is those angles on the ends of wood (i am low on time to do a drawingat moment) but i am real curious if they make circular saws that pivot side to side? i can afford one of those too, and i am willing to pay for it so i don't need to pay extra to have it all cut for me.

PS i need to build these two hd15 boxes by march the 4th for a party im djing for a good friend.  i have a small army of old home stereo speakers that wre really cheap used and ive used them in the past.  together they add up to serious loud, but distort easy when i try to get bass response, so i am making those my mids and highs.  I built a realy miserable woofer speaker and though it did exactly what i expected, aparently my expectations were totally uneducated and misguided becasue it has no kick whatsoever.  i am so stressed, i can only do this if one of you aids me with information.

thankss

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2006 at 3:10pm
Plywood was originally measured in inches here too but Europe has forced us into metrification!  18mm ply = 3/4" 12mm = 1/2" etc.  As long as you make sure there won't be any gaps in the joins by adding/subtracting small amounts from the measurements in the plans you can adapt them to use a slightly different thicknesses.

2 HD15's might sound a little thin as they're designed to either be used as mid-bass with subs below, or in large stacks.  For what you describe I would recommend a reflex cabinet.  Either a pair of single 15" or 18" reflex boxes would be a nice first cabinet project and would also remove the need to cut angles (need some practice to get right).  Almost all circular saws are able to tilt the blade to cut angles.

Scandinavian birch ply is about the best for cabinets but for first attempts you might want to use MDF as it's cheaper, especially if you make a mistake!

I can help you with some reflex box designs if you need but there are plenty around on the web.  You could go with a horn but almost all designs expect to be used in 2's,4's or more together to get the specified performance.

Hope this helps,

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2006 at 4:53pm

Robotnation, a couple of quick bits of info.  I'm also in the US.

Careful on the ply.  The 3/4" "Blonde wood" hardwood ply that Lowes carries is actually 18mm, but the tolorance varies from 20mm to 17mm.  This also has a bunch of voids.  I wouldn't recommend it.  Made in South America (no bash intended).

Home Depot had some very nice Canadian Maple ply that was much nicer.  Very few voids and was much closer in tolorance.  It's also 18mm.  I haven't found any around here (MI) lately.

You won't find the fine Birch that you read about here at Lowes or Home Depot.  When I have found it at specialty lumber yards, it was from $65 to $110 per sheet.

For the angles, a circular saw or a table saw is the right answer.  Do a search of the forum for "saw boards" (maybe one word?).  There's some good ideas on cutting in that thread.

Hope this helps.

Jim

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robotnation Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2006 at 7:51pm
thank you for the information, its a big help.  Could you suggest a reflex design to get me good kick?  I really need serious bass by march the 4th (maybe not serious by your standards, but i really need more than old 70s home audio equipment can give, and more than those disgusting 2 way dj cabinets can give)  I just need something that'll thump chests in a room of about 100 (they still haven't given me square footage or pics yet)  Small size is a plus.  Inexpensiveness is a plus. Being liftable is a plus, but not necesary, i have friends willing to help.  I really am capable of doing a fair amount of wood manipulation. I can do anything that isn't a curved edge, i can bend wood though that doesn't worry me.  I just want a design that will give me both kicks and drones with a bit of extension higher up.  I found reflex designs, but none had spl curves with them.  im open to suggestions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robotnation Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2006 at 7:56pm

Heres an SPL curve for the two subs i have as it is... could you tell me if that looks good enough?

PS that curve has factored in a 4th order lowpass crossover at 90 hz on both boxes

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robotnation Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2006 at 7:58pm
PPS i can afford a second set of speakers, but i CANT afford a second amp for bass, so i need ONE set of speakers to plug into my amp that gets 2400 watts at 4 ohms mono
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2006 at 6:50am
They look awful. Really.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norty303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2006 at 9:34am

Buy some decent drivers.  No seriously, decent drivers will help your sound better than any box you can stick those eminence in.

As people here have found out, once you reach the limits of the eminence, no amount of clever box fiddling will help without adversely affecting another element.

Invest for the future rather than making something to just get you by now.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robotnation Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2006 at 10:39am

yea i thought these speakers weresorta bad.  Even worse is that they are each powered by Madison executioner X21s, which have huge xmax (that means i suck even more.)  I am going to sell the drivers inside and use the housings i have to cut up for whatever i build next (mdf.)  I am going to buy two of the eminence sf 15 pros this weekend (unless someone suggests a design with 18s before then.)  I just really need help finding a housing that will give me a somewhat flat response In the regions of sound where the kick of the bassdrum lies.  I would really like to have some deep down lows but i am willing to sacrifice that because i can only build 2 housings with 1 speaker each by march (or one housing with two speakers.)  Are you sure i cant use the hd 15?  I saw pictures of people using them alone for djing on the reader projects page.  Its only a room of 100 or so, and these kids haven't heard a sound system larger than the ones on the DDR machines at my local arcade, so dont worry about them being spoiled beforehand.  i need to know what to buy BY saturday, however, because thats teh latest i have to buy things to get them done in time.

BTW i have one behringer europower amplifier that gets 2400 watts when bridged at 4 ohms, and i have a 3 way stereo crossover by behringer, the cx3400.  Do i need to use a behringer amp on my highs too to prevent phase messing up?  If any of you have experience with teh HD15 (dumb question to ask on the hd15 forum) then could you tell me how well it kicks with an eminence driver in it?



Edited by robotnation - 19 January 2006 at 10:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2006 at 10:47am

The graph you're showing lists "Madison executioner 21".  No offense to anyone, but I would doubt you'll ever get a great "kick" out of these speakers.  Even the 18" specs look less than good.

There are options out there depending on your budget and what compromises you're willing to live with.  Norty303's advise is good if you can swing the cash.

Jim

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2006 at 10:54am

Sorry, we must have been typing at the same time

I've never worked with the HD15's, but I would think you need at least two per side (maybe a HD215?) and you should still set-up with them on the floor and against a wall (two reflective barriers).  Has anyone tried this?

Jim

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robotnation Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2006 at 4:47pm

Norty 303, how right you are.  I also did another test today and learned something else

my old speakers sound amazing on my new amp (ep 2500.)  i couldnt hear myself talking down teh hall from hihat treble and there was decent kick for about 15 feet.  I will invest in the best speakers i can find, but also, i will only get the best amps from now on.  this jsut now showed me, however, that i need to start reinforcing my deep down lows first.  I am going to build one X1 cabinet.  I guess xmax and all those fancy numbers really dont matter all the time, the only important number is cost

I am pretty sure funneling everything over 70 hz to my old speakers and all below to an x1 would put less strain on my mids and get even more volume both ways.  Does anyone know if i would get good kick out of an X1?

PS thanks everyone for helping me out so much

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