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Point Source system V/s Line Array Systems

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santoshkateja View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 February 2017 at 11:14am
What will be the best buy in present scenario Point Source system or a Line array system ? system use :- Rental , Audience size:- upto 2 K , should be Tech rider friendly ! 
santosh
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DJ-Dulux View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DJ-Dulux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 11:16am
Gets cup-of-tea and biscuit, looking forward to the discussion!
Anymore details, sightline requirements, flown or ground stacked, music type, time pressures to get setup and ready to rock...
 
As you can see, most of the above factors have nothing to do with sound quality or right tool to do the job well acoustically!
 
 
Dupe...


Edited by DJ-Dulux - 15 February 2017 at 11:21am
Dupe...
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wires View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wires Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 11:24am
If you are just looking to make money on renting boxes then buy a line array that companies want; i.e. L'acoustics or D&B.

If you want something more personal, more critical audio quality or smaller rooms then point source it is.

I'm biased though as most line arrays bore me, both to use and mix on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 11:52am
Not as simple as just buying the boxes though, once you hit rider friendly stuff you may well find that a bigger fish with all the trimmings and crew with retainer quotas to meet offer to do your intended shows for literal peanuts.

I've seen 2000+ cap shows done with 12 or more a side KARA, full tech production INCLUDING lights, all crew, delivered and taken away for less than £2k a show. More than once. In fact on a couple of occasions I know of, it's been under a grand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wires Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 12:14pm
That's crazy toasty. I guess some of the bigger companies are doing a block load of jobs for that client as spreading out the price?

The sheer amount of people still doing it for peanuts in this game is mad.
Living to work, instead of working to live.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by wires wires wrote:

That's crazy toasty. I guess some of the bigger companies are doing a block load of jobs for that client as spreading out the price?

The sheer amount of people still doing it for peanuts in this game is mad.
Living to work, instead of working to live.

Ground stack Martin MLA mini, Digico Desk, power distro, two labour, delivered set-up and taken away for a grand inc VAT around here! And that was a well known company, fully reputable and insured, etc.

The Nexo Geo S12 is quite a useful ideal, in that they do 10 or 30 degree boxes, with either 85 or 120 horizontal, but they do rigging kits for either point source arrays, or traditional line arrays.

Whether it is a true line array, or a true point source, is for others to debate, but the concept of having one hire fleet, which is arrayable to either way round makes some sense.

I am sure others offer similar concepts.

Nexo are even doing flying frames for PS15R2, hung under the LS18 subs, as some form of "line" array. I am sure it makes a noise, but to get it to form a "line" would take some gargantuan processing...

However, when you look at boxes like the JBL Vertec 900 mid tops, and how they are supposed to form an "array".....perhaps coupling from 5K and up?

Don't forget that 1KHz wavelength is approx 0.34m, so two boxes, short array, will have some effect, probably cancellation and lobing, but 500Hz is 0.68m, so to get proper cylindrical wavefont to 500Hz will require an array of at least double that length. At the top end 5KHz wavelength is 6.8cm, so your drivers need to be closer than that together, or Young's Double Slit type artefacts will come into play. As the HF gets higher in frequency, your drivers/waveguides need to get even closer together.

Line array is nice in theory, but very few actually achieve, and the ones that come damn close, are very rarely hung in long enough lengths to give them a fighting chance.

However, the fashion, and riders, dictate.....
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B_Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 12:41pm
If your on a budget go and buy some stacks of large point source e.g. old Turbo.

If you have some money to spend go with a mid size array, used Meyer melodie, DV dosc etc but be prepared to buy minimum 12 boxes plus subs and be prepared to take min 6 a side out on each gig.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMorison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by wires wires wrote:

That's crazy toasty. I guess some of the bigger companies are doing a block load of jobs for that client as spreading out the price?

The sheer amount of people still doing it for peanuts in this game is mad.
Living to work, instead of working to live.
 
Or they're willing to actually take a loss to keep their profile up and try and get more work in the future, or to try and keep staff engaged  & on-side.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMorison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by santoshkateja santoshkateja wrote:

What will be the best buy in present scenario Point Source system or a Line array system ? system use :- Rental , Audience size:- upto 2 K , should be Tech rider friendly ! 
 
1: Whatever's on the actual riders you see
2: Whatever has good local service/support
3: Whatever you can easily cross-rent more of.
 
In other words, it's a business decision, not a sound quality one.
 
If no-one in your market has ever heard of F1 or Danley, but is happy to have Vertec all day, then you're shooting yourself in the foot buying the former two even if you can make them sound better.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B_Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by DMorison DMorison wrote:

 
If no-one in your market has ever heard of F1 or Danley, but is happy to have Vertec all day, then you're shooting yourself in the foot buying the former two even if you can make them sound better.
 

That's perpetuating the old myth that line source array systems don't or can't sound as good as an arrayed point source system. Just a myth.


Edited by B_Bender - 15 February 2017 at 1:12pm
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santoshkateja View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote santoshkateja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 1:37pm
Short list system V10P of D&B !
santosh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B_Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2017 at 1:48pm
you wont do 2000 people with a v10p a side.

look at v12 instead.
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