Multiple amps in same freq band
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Category: General
Forum Name: Amp Forum
Forum Description: The 'Stopping Jake Fielder moaning constantly' forum description...
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=18220
Printed Date: 16 April 2024 at 6:28am
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Topic: Multiple amps in same freq band
Posted By: Silas ))))))
Subject: Multiple amps in same freq band
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 7:21pm
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right i might be missing something drastic here but eh...
say you wanted to run more than 4 way i.e. 6 or 7 amps in a big system how would you go about it???
cheers and excuse the nievity, nievety, nievaty or however you spell it
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Replies:
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 7:28pm
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If one LMS can do the amount of amps you want in mono, just do 1 per channel. EDIT: Sorry, didn't read the title carefully enough. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Spesh
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 7:30pm
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Do you mean sending a different signal to each amp (ie 5,6,7 way operation), or having say several amps running the same frequency?
They're are plenty of lms's that can do 6 and 8 way mono. Or if u were talking about running multiple amps for the same frequency band, you can either use a distribution amp or daisy chain the amps. Although in most cases they will have to be daisy chained xlr-jack-xlr-jack......etc etc... ------------- Symmetry Soundsystem |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 7:35pm
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Well it depends on what you mean by '4 way', as in your example above you seem to link the number of amps directly to the number of 'ways' the system is. 6 or 7 amps would not make your system '6 way'
My rig is 5 way but runs off 3 amps mostly. Subs off 1 amp, kicks off another amp, mids off ch1 of amp 3, tops and supertweeters (passively crossed) off ch2 of amp 3.
If you you mean, how would you go about adding another amp to drive 4 more bass bins in addition to the 4 you already have (as an example number) you could either get a Y split cable out of the relevant crossover output and connect it to both of the amps, or the more usual way is to link out of the first amp, into the second amp.
Most amps have 2 'inputs' for each channel, usually a combination of xlr and TRS jack. These are in fact both inputs and outputs as they are simply wired in parallel. You could go from x-over output to XLR input, then link out with a TRS jack lead to the jack socket of the next amp. In relation to Spesh's post above, you don't have to go XLR-->jack, jack-->XLR, etc as they are not designated in or out, so you would prob go XLR-->XLR then jack to jack, then xlr's again as the cables are easier to come by/make up and are more versatile to have in your cable box.
So if you have a big rack of amps all doing the same job you just put 1 signal in at the top and then daisy chain down the rack as you would when connecting speakers in parallel. Some manufacturers (QSC for 1) route the ch1 inputs to the ch2 inputs when in parallel and bridge mode so you have a full set of connectors available to you. ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: Silas ))))))
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 8:31pm
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sorry i mean say -
3 amps running the bass section - same freq
2 amps runing mids
1 amp running tops
so running 3 way but with six amps.
what bit a kit would i need to do so?
Cheers
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Posted By: Silas ))))))
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 8:32pm
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cheers norty i get it now you can link the amps htrough the inputs, just wasnt sure how safe that was so -
xover bass - into one amp then linked from that amp to another
and so on?
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Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 8:48pm
Correctamundo
 ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: colinmono
Date Posted: 12 July 2008 at 7:44am
Could we make this a sticky post in the newbie section? I've seen it asked and answered a lot on here (probably by you or JBL man most of the time  ), one of those things that is confusing until someone explains it to you. |
norty303 wrote:Posted By: Silas ))))))
Date Posted: 12 July 2008 at 8:46am
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yer a sticky would be good i spent ages trying to find info on it!
cheers for clearing it up
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Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 12 July 2008 at 11:24am
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Stickied and amended title a bit... ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: bassmish
Date Posted: 29 July 2008 at 11:49am
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I use 4 amps for bass and link them as you're describing above, but I'm pretty sure that by the 4th amp the signal isn't half what it was when it emerged from the x ova which is very frustrating. does anyone here experience this and do you have any tips? there must be some signal boosting device? don't really have any money left so cheap diy solutions would be much appreciated! |
Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 29 July 2008 at 12:01pm
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One of the amps might have an unbalanced input so when you link out of it the amps further down the chain are only getting an unbalanced signal? Try the amps in a different order and see if it makes a difference. |
Posted By: bassmish
Date Posted: 29 July 2008 at 12:28pm
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right so you're saying that there shouldn't be any large depreciation in signal unless unbalanced cable is used? Then I guess it's prob cos I use mostly unbalanced cable!!
does a balanced jack cable use a stereo plug? I guess not because it is only mono on an xlr to jack but this is balanced?
thanks for the info regarding the inputs as links in some cases on amps, could be very useful.
One more Q; when there is a link on an amp, is this just a parallel connection to the input? (so if there isn't a link available one can be created)
the current must decrease as more amps are added then so why is this not a problem?
cheers
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Posted By: HMSS
Date Posted: 06 August 2008 at 1:02am
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You could buy one of these ultra link from Beringher
http://www.absolutemusic.co.uk/shop/view_product_large.php?product=behmx882 - http://www.absolutemusic.co.uk/shop/view_product_large.php?product=behmx882
I use one sometimes to split signals and control gain etc ------------- All good things come to an end. If you wanna know something 'google it' if you wanna sell something 'ebay it'.. SAD |
Posted By: colinmono
Date Posted: 06 August 2008 at 10:42am
Yes, balanced jack connections use stereo plugs. +ve signal (pin 2 on XLR) goes to tip, -ve signal (pin 3 of XLR) goes to the first ring, and ground (pin 1 on XLR) goes to the second ring (sleeve). This article explains all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS_connector#Tip.2Fring.2Fsleeve_terminology - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS_connector#Tip.2Fring.2Fsleeve_terminology
When you have a link input on an amp channel both the main input and the "link" are simply connected inside the amp. A Y cable can be used to split the signal to two amps where no link connection is available. You are correct in thinking that the signal level will drop as more amps are connected, but in practice (I think due to the relationship between the output impedance of the crossover to the input impedance of the amps), the drop is small and this will not cause you any problems unless you are linking a large number of amps together. There is a big difference in level between a balanced and an unbalanced signal (6dB IRC), so switching to an all balanced setup should help if you're having trouble giving your amps a large enough signal. |
Posted By: chickenfizz
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 1:19pm
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Just to quickly add to what has been said, because almost always the links on amps are simply paralell splits this means that if you use an unbalanced connector anywhere between any of the amps then the whole chain will be unbalanced. Connecting many amps to one output shouldn't be a problem, for example the output impedance of the Behringer DCX is 160 ohms, the input impedance of an MC2 E series amp is 20,000 ohms. If you connect 12 channels of amp to the one input you still have a load of more than 10 times the output (1666 ohms) you could in this kind of case send this signal down a long multicore without problems too. Following this 'ten times is a good number' rule then you have a theoretical safe maximum of 72 channels of amp that the DCX is capable of driving. I think this is conservative though. The only time there may be a problem is if you were using completely different amps and one had an imput impedance of say 20k ohms and the other was 2k ohms, in this case the amp with the 2k ohm input would get a larger proportion of the signal, but the difference would be very small unless a very large number of amps were being used or a high impedance output (with inherantly poor line driving capability) was used. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 26 August 2008 at 12:11am
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I have had problems linking amps as described above... I think this is probably down the architecture of my amps rather than the above info being wrong.
The second amp in the chain would always be slightly down on gain (even the signal lights on the front of the amps confirmed this, first one in the chain would always start flashing first, tried swapping the amps around, different cables etc etc)... in the end I just made up a Y-Cable. ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 05 November 2008 at 3:12am
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One thing I've been thinking of would be the case of driving similar cabs with different amps. Let's say I'd use a Proline 2700 in 4ohm bridged to drive two 1850 horns, and say Tapco J2500 to drive another pair of 1850 horns in 4ohm bridged. Now how does this affect their coupling? Different amps may have really different damping factors and all other values. |
Posted By: Sawyer
Date Posted: 09 December 2008 at 9:56am
| I'm having an issue with this now. I've got a Matrix STR 1500 which daisy chains into 2 Bheringer 1500 in bridged mode. (Using XLR > XLR) The Matrix isnt even hitting -6db (2nd light up I think) but the Bheringer is clipping! The only way I can stop if from clipping is obviously turning the volume down on the amp, which I obviously don't want to do. Whats the best way to resolve this? How would I go about making on of those split cables from out of the Crossover? Which pins to which? |
Posted By: yardie
Date Posted: 09 December 2008 at 12:56pm
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this may have more to do with gain structure than frequency.If you go to Rane.com rane notes you can find out how to make up cables. hope this helps ------------- i got the sound bug bad there no cure |
Posted By: andyamp
Date Posted: 17 January 2009 at 6:30pm
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how old is the str1500?
------------- a wise man changes his mind a fool does not. http://www.matrixamplification.com/ - http://www.matrixamplification.com/ |
Posted By: demanddeepbass
Date Posted: 04 March 2009 at 3:37pm
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note that not all amps are the same sensitivity. some give full output from 0.775volts of input some from 1.4volts and there are some other odd ones in between. Quite a few amps have a "sensitivity" switch on the back or sometimes an internal jumper. Make sure they are all set the same or one amp of the same power may be quite a lot quieter than another. Id also like to point out that there is no such such thing as a stereo jack plug! occasionally people attempt to put two channels through a balanced jack plug but this is not as god intended and should be avoided.... a bit like using XLRs for speakers. LOL let the flame grilling begin ;-) ------------- "These amps go up to 11" |
Posted By: bassmish
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 2:00am
why? |
Posted By: demanddeepbass
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 11:29am
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The Jack Plug is one of the most misused connectors going. They get used for unbalanced stereo signals, unbalanced mono connections, balanced mono connections, headphones, loudspeaker connections, insert points and occasionally even power connections. All of which causes huge amounts of confusion. Can you imagine what would happen when Johnny guitarist plugs the speaker output of his 3000watt guitar head into your lovely Midas mixer? It's probably similar to what happens when you swear at him pull the plug out and drop it on the metal stage when it shorts, gives him a shock and blows up his amp. The point is you are never quite sure what is on the end of a jack cable unless you can find the other end which sucks. The same used to be true of XLRs to a lesser extent till the speakon came along. Thankfully XLRs on speakers are very rare now. (although 3 pin XLRs for DMX are much more common now (this is due to lazy lampies not bringing enough 5 pin cable to the gig and wanting to steal your mic cables for DMX)) Professionals should use balanced or unbalanced 1/4" jack plugs with line level signals on them. If its a patch panel it probably makes sense to use a B gauge jack. Putting unbalanced stereo down one cable just causes confusion. If you plug it into a mono balanced input the CMR amplifier will probably null most of the signal. One exception with 1/4" jacks (which is by convention and irritates me greatly!) is headphones. Another (which is an irritating desk manufacturers cost saving measure) is unbalanced insert points. This is all perfectly clear in my little OCD world and should be in everyone elses! /end rant. ------------- "These amps go up to 11" |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 6:47pm
Don't need to imagine unfortunately.. been there :( Was an A&H, no midas, 300w not 3000, but the noise was not nice. |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 10 July 2009 at 12:45pm
Saw an Ampeg SVT-1000 eat up a Berringer 16Ch like that. |
Posted By: QSS
Date Posted: 23 July 2009 at 2:52pm
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Thanks guys for all the useful info. I'm a new member and had this problem linking my two PSL KA2400's and losing signal on the second amp. Now I think I'll be able to sort it out.
THANX THANX THANX!!! ------------- "Music is life" |
Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 23 July 2009 at 3:09pm
Also jacks can short out when you plug them in
 Not great if theres power on it
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Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 24 September 2009 at 1:19pm
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If you have too much trouble linking the amps just make up some xlr Y split leads. ------------- www.wedding-production.co.uk www.stage2sound.com |
Posted By: cilla.scope
Date Posted: 08 October 2009 at 10:04pm
eeek ... moral of the story? Dont use mickey-mouse desks :) last big desk I installed (which admittedly was a while ago now) was an AMS 'gemini' digital thing with flying faders, no insert points to worry about, everything was done in the software ... takes all the fun out of it if you don't get to wire jackfields up to Krone frames :( |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 08 October 2009 at 10:10pm
If its a single jack doing send and return, how would you get it balanced? Or is there such a thing as TRRRS? Or are you simply suggesting they should provide a TRS socket each for send and return? ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: demanddeepbass
Date Posted: 08 October 2009 at 11:48pm
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yep, balanced jack socket for send and return.
------------- "These amps go up to 11" |
Posted By: cilla.scope
Date Posted: 09 October 2009 at 1:34am
seconded on that. All decent outboard gear will be balanced in/out anyway :) seperate balanced send and return is far more flexible, because you never know what you will want to send it to, and how you might want to loop it about before it comes back to the channel. there is possibly an argument for unbalanced combined insert points on guitar amp heads, because you don't want to confuse guitarists with sockets labeled "send" and "return" .. they just stare at them and miss the first set. |
Posted By: topdiggy2
Date Posted: 22 October 2009 at 9:41pm
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Guys -
Okay, going back to this amp linking thing...because i was looking at buying a speaker management system like the BBE DS26, found here http://www.bbesound.com/products/speaker-management/index.htm - http://www.bbesound.com/products/speaker-management/index.htm .
I have a Behringer EP2500 now, and am getting ready to purchase two EP4000 to run my subs, and i want to link the sub signal out of my crossover to the sub amps. The Behringer doesnt have a link plug, or does it? The back of my amp looks like this...
http://cas07.businessflow.ms/Current/media/item_image_sheet.aspx?domain=audiosavings.com&item_guid=ebd6e940-e0fd-4405-b472-715f93e06d5a&image_guid=69780b5d-3f4e-436d-97a5-94bc52df8d65 - http://cas07.businessflow.ms/Current/media/item_image_sheet.aspx?domain=audiosavings.com&item_guid=ebd6e940-e0fd-4405-b472-715f93e06d5a&image_guid=69780b5d-3f4e-436d-97a5-94bc52df8d65
So, if I understand you all correctly. To link any amp, I can take the cable from my crossover and plug it into input #1 on amp#1, and then run another cable from input#2 on amp#1 to input #1 amp#2? Is this correct?
Thanks
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Posted By: colinmono
Date Posted: 23 October 2009 at 12:01pm
No. Input 1 and 2 are two separate channels on your amp and are not linked inside the box. Connecting your sub signal to input 1 will not make it appear at input 2 of the same amp. You have two inputs per channel on the amp you linked to a picture of (1 XLR, 1 jack). They ARE linked inside the box. What you need to do is (read carefully) take the cable from my crossover and plug it into input #1 on amp#1 (e.g. XLR socket). Run another cable from the second input#1 (e.g. jack socket) on amp#1 to input #1 amp#2 (XLR or jack, doesn't matter). Et Voila. |
Posted By: colinmono
Date Posted: 23 October 2009 at 12:02pm
| "my crossover" should read "your crossover" in my post above. |
Posted By: orangeberet
Date Posted: 19 November 2009 at 1:51pm
So you and your public hear music in mono??? Works goog? I think you lose lot of things (it depends of the kind of music/live to play...) ------------- http://www.audiodj.es - My WEB |
Posted By: aperrado
Date Posted: 20 November 2009 at 3:31am
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hi all sorry for my intromission here but I think to samebody can help me. I have one mixer and 3 amplifiers what do I need to send signal of the mixer to amplifiers ? ------------- Im hard to learn but still asking |
Posted By: aperrado
Date Posted: 20 November 2009 at 3:31am
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I play dj sound ------------- Im hard to learn but still asking |
Posted By: colinmono
Date Posted: 20 November 2009 at 8:43am
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What speakers are connected to your amplifiers aperrado? If the amps are all driving the same frequecy band, your question has been answered earlier in the thread. You take the signal from the mixer to amp 1, then use amp 1's signal link/out socket to link it to amp 2 and so on (or use a Y cable / splitter box if your amp has no link out socket). If your amplifiers are driving different frequency bands (eg subs mid tops) you need an active crossover. |
Posted By: aperrado
Date Posted: 20 November 2009 at 11:01pm
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ok
I use a pair of jbl jrx-125 whit crown c-2000 (full range)
other pair of jbl jxr-125 whit a crest cpx-2600 (full range)
and a pair bass double 18'swith a peavey cs-3000 I use a peavey kosmos for the bass
the problem for me is that I need to send signal to every amp from the mixer with only one main output ------------- Im hard to learn but still asking |
Posted By: colinmono
Date Posted: 21 November 2009 at 10:11am
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Ideally you need an active crossover to split the signal into bass to send to your peavey cs-3000, and mid / top to the two amps driving your jrx-125's. Mixer > crossover > amplifiers > speakers The type of thing you need is something like a Rane AC22 or AC23, or one of the Behringer CX models. There are other brands to choose from too, these are just examples. At the moment all you can do is link the inputs of each amplifier, which means you are sending a full range signal to your subs - they won't sound their best like this. Mixer > amp 1 > amp 2 > amp 3 Linking amplifier inputs is described by Norty back on page one of this thread. All of your amps have several inputs per channel, so you put signal into one (eg XLR) and connect another (e.g. barrier strip) to the next amp in the chain. |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 21 November 2009 at 10:42am
Actually, with the EP amps, if you run in parallel mode the ch2 inputs do function as outputs for linking out. See page 6 of the manual. ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: big bad bass
Date Posted: 05 January 2010 at 4:13pm
| that sound fukin mental i want to try but first to make me lil 10k an then on word to big, better sounds!!!! he he he me so naughty, me love the big sounds lol |
Posted By: Spesh
Date Posted: 05 January 2010 at 4:16pm
???
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Posted By: aperrado
Date Posted: 08 January 2010 at 3:25am
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???? ------------- Im hard to learn but still asking |
Posted By: windowgobo
Date Posted: 27 January 2010 at 6:10pm
| ??? |
Posted By: rooneypoos
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 1:13am
| Oh |
Posted By: bass traffic
Date Posted: 11 May 2010 at 9:44am
| Yeah I've been wondering about using different amps for the same signal, think perhaps same make and model is gonna be best if I daisy chain them. Looks like I'm gonna have to get in more debt to the bank and buy even more amps! |
Posted By: malc01m
Date Posted: 14 December 2011 at 11:18am
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I'm amazed no one has thought to mention XLR line splitters as the solution. I use a relatively cheap linesplitter from Stageline , LSP-102 .... These don't have major electronics involved in their circuitry so this cheapo product is in fact robust and does the job of providing a proper signal to the amps with no confusion... http://www.stagebeat.co.uk/P/111153/Stage+Line+Line+Splitter+LSP-102+251680" rel="nofollow - http://www.stagebeat.co.uk/P/111153/Stage+Line+Line+Splitter+LSP-102+251680 A bit of shopping around and they can be acquired much cheaper than this... |
Posted By: HighGradeBlazer
Date Posted: 17 December 2011 at 7:09pm
| This helped me a lot cheers! |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 04 January 2012 at 4:30pm
I hate to start confusing anyone, but what about amps like Crest that use pin 3 as the hot. That´s going to be fun for anyone doing direct amp to amp links. Best thing is to keep to one brand of amp per rig unless you really know what you´re doing!  EDIT: maybe that should be old Crests - like when they were Crests and not Peaveys!  |
Posted By: grazzeee
Date Posted: 25 June 2012 at 10:13am
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0002E57D4/ref=asc_df_B0002E57D48462657?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22206&creativeASIN=B0002E57D4 simple and effective... turn your X2 outputs from your cross over into X6... |
Posted By: colinmono
Date Posted: 25 June 2012 at 3:42pm
Of course that will work, but daisy chaining is a much cheaper solution (or Y splits if you have no link out on your amp inputs). |
Posted By: grazzeee
Date Posted: 25 June 2012 at 3:56pm
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from experiance splitting the cable reduces the signal volume and quality... also with the board you can control the volume of each output.. so if your amps are all differnt you can run them all on full then control the volume into each amp indavidually. |
Posted By: colinmono
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 8:17am
Interesting. If I understand the theory correctly, with modern(sih) gear with low output impedance and high input impedance, the tiny drop in level from splitting is not significant (i.e. barely measurable and almost certainly not audible)... and this is borne out by my experience. Whatever works for you I guess. For me, once less component in the audio chain is a good thing. |
Posted By: redfire
Date Posted: 31 July 2013 at 9:03am
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We use one of the Berri splitters in our sound, and can well recommend them.. 2 in, and eight out (a direct stereo "mix" out, and six individual, gain controlled channels).. 
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Posted By: bosbacs
Date Posted: 03 January 2014 at 10:13am
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Distribution amplifier is what you need.
------------- Thanksalot |