2x18" MEATGRINDER v2 (done!)
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: New Projects Forum
Forum Description: Forum for new speakerplans projects, in memory of Tony Wilkes, 1953 - 2014
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=29174
Printed Date: 19 April 2024 at 10:25am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 2x18" MEATGRINDER v2 (done!)
Posted By: Amano
Subject: 2x18" MEATGRINDER v2 (done!)
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 7:43am
First one is done!  2x18" Horn length: ~2.5 m. Dimensions: 1200x1200x600mm Drivers: 18Sound 18NLW9600 Calculated nominal-SPL (at 2x1800W): 140db - 142db Freq Range: 30-250Hz Sesitivity: 105 db (2x0,5W at 1 meter)        Sounds good at 2x600W (2 x C18-600LF) |
Replies:
Posted By: TDA-Audio
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 8:10am
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Амано -ты красавчик !!! молодец .. недавно о тебя вспоминал.. куда ты пропал.. своими мыслями оживлял форум...
какая компрессия в горле? tr- very good idea.. Amano -the Legend! ------------- horns plans http://photofile.ru/users/tda-audio/ |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 8:13am
| Был в отпуске и в работе над MEATGRINDER... :) |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 8:15am
| Если не изменяет память compression level = 2.4... |
Posted By: tommysb
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 8:36am
| Looks Great!< id="gwProxy" ="">< ="jsCall;" id="jsProxy" =""> |
Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 8:41am
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awesome! ive been thining about a design like this.
are those driver chambers the same size? |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 8:49am
Yes! The size is same!
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Saul wrote:Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 8:52am
looks great! 
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Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 9:39am
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F**king hell! what a design!
Its a pretty good idea for a layout, lev was trying to design a 2x18 wsx, this looks mental
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Posted By: tea nut
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 9:45am
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that looks like a beast.how many sheets of ply per box is it?did it take long to build? ------------- dont burn your shed down |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 9:52am
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it looks like LAB or ASX.... It takes long time to build!
like WSX! |
Posted By: Silas ))))))
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 10:09am
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4 of those should shake the floor a bit, nice design + build
------------- power in the blood |
Posted By: Ryan94
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 10:43am
i bet it weighs a bit! nice build 
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Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 11:14am
| ~120kg with 2xC18-600LF |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 12:23pm
Exactly what I visualised, This is gonna be something special. Would expect to only take 2x of these out to most places. Only problem is, builders will be rubbing their hands together with glee, when you ask for a quote for this. Unless we in UK, do huge group buy from CNC geezers, when design is tested.  EDIT:Top loading as well... Oh dear, really have to try and contain myself. Assembling list of compatible drivers as we speak. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 12:38pm
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drivers: High BL: >28 Large Xmax: >=9mm. List (top 3): 1) 18Sound 18NLW9600 (for best response and SPL) 2) PD 1850 (expensive + heavy) 3) Beyma 18SW1600Nd Will work with P-Audio C18-600LF (cheapest)...tested... but only from ~45Hz
|
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 12:57pm
MeatGrinder V1 had SCOOPMODE (without front panel), but "Frankenstein" style of driver loading.  |
Posted By: imageoven
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 1:05pm
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It looks as if there is no expansion in the section between the two chambers, is there a reason for this? edit; I'm referring to the first design. |
Posted By: LjudLahger
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 1:13pm
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Wow
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Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 1:19pm
You maybe suprised what 18TBX100, V18-1000, Turbomax 1000 will do in there. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 1:19pm
v1 or v2? If you talking about v2, then there is expansion between chambers!
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Posted By: imageoven
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 1:27pm
this is the picture I was referring to. the gap between the chambers looks parrallel sided, or does it expand in the other direction somehow? |
Posted By: Ryan94
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 1:29pm
| whats the dimentions of the V2? |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 1:30pm
| It looks like it's wider at the bottom than it is at the top to me, are you accounting for perspective of the photo? |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 1:31pm
yes.. at that photo it looks like you talking about.. but really it extends to down..
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Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 1:32pm
1200x1200x600 mm like LAB, ASX,
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Posted By: Ryan94
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 1:34pm
| thanks |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 1:36pm
There is a problem with photo perspective!
 I'm sorry! I'm not good photographer!  |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 1:40pm
| please, help me to measure my cab: Programs + Microphone calibrating file (maybe) + theory |
Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 2:02pm
I think this looks well good, i struggled to find a good layout for a double 18" horn about a year ago, i came up with a design but didnt go any further as loading the drivers would be a total pain, as would constructing it!
This looks like the soloution though, pretty even loading on the cones and simple to acces the drivers,
We just need some measurments now, it looks impressive though!!
 |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 2:05pm
Unfortunately, this may option may be for install only, due to weight. What are the chamber size/throats for each driver Amano? I'm guessing approx 60 litre + 700cm2 ? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 2:20pm
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Actually I don't remember all parametres... I modeled it much time ago.. 2 months ago.. and then it was Holiday after my job... I has lost my USB-Flash drive with all data and plots during holyday. I'll take it from my office computer.. Hornresp data will be at this week...
~500cm2 is throat area.. |
Posted By: imageoven
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 2:53pm
no, I guess not! that's a good long horn then. I could see this as a viable design for under stage instalation as on its side the driver access could be done from the side. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 3:28pm
I've noticed with Long horn cabs (2M+), you need to be good distance back to fully experience them, with sub "appearing louder" at increased distance from cab, or "in the car park" in some venues. Will this be the situation here as well? How would 1.83M horn version fair? Cab has 2x drivers so will still have great extension, with right drivers.. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 4:02pm
hmmm... i tested cab in half space... sounds loud and far.
In short distance it sounds very loud! You mean that you want to see same cab with smaller horn length (1.83m)? |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 4:13pm
Yes, just an idea. But must say the dimensions on your current are basically perfect, so its not about cab being too big. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: biotec
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 9:42am
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great design! looking forward to seeing some measurements.
I think that if the cab works well with just 2 per side it would be a great horn for live music.
The compression ratio looks reasonable, the rear chambers are not too small, and the horn length is not absurd so I think the cab would work well with the kind of drivers which sound natural on live music. It is difficult to get the typical beefy horn loading drivers to sound anything other than brutal on a long FLH so I think that being able to use slightly looser drivers is an advantage.
I think it will have a similar sound to the ASS B600 or turbosound tse118, but of course will be louder and may drop lower when stacked up. ------------- me so horny, me love you long throw. |
Posted By: login4
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 10:40am
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wow these look great and not to huge, if one only needed two with well placed handles and casters it wouldn't be too bad realy ------------- CELTIC SUBSONIC SOUND SYSTEMS |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 2:47pm
With horn length exceeding WSX, and 2x 18" drivers, I would expect this design to be easily coaxed into exceeding the sub performance of WSX, and matching/exceeding that of any single driver scoop. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 5:00pm
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I am amazed by loudness of a SINGLE cab... it was louder than WSX.  2-3 weeks i hope..I am planning to do measurements in JustMLS in half space... Am i right? |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 5:09pm
Please tell me single cab will do 35-100hz @ 103db average, without corner loading. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 6:40pm
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I think it can do it with right drivers with (-3db on edge)... When i modelled cab I used 2xPi (half space) and SPL (1w/1m, 2.0V) was more than 100db after 40Hz and growed up to 106Db at ~80Hz.. sorry for my "English" Measurements will show a "picture".......
|
Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 6:49pm
| 2v? it should be 1.41v for 1w measurment |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 6:53pm
OK. Amano, what's the rear chamber size for each driver? Also would have thought horn thorat of 600-700 for each driver would maintain decent compression, and low end extension? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 7:38pm
P=U*U/R 2V*2V/4Ohm=1W 1.41*1.41/4=0.5W
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Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 7:43pm
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can we have the plan? ------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners. |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 7:55pm
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I can publish version 1 plan this week... By the way, version 1 has less details...
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Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 7:59pm
Sorry! your maths checks out! yeah you're completely right
 i was thinking 8r was 1.83 not 2.83 and got confused!
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Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 8:12pm
I don't remember, it was long time ago ... before summer holydays..At this week i'll post all hornresp data for v2 + version 1 plan with hornresp data... Now i'm ill at home and i haven't data at home... have a patience!
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Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 10:22pm
3 sheets of ply 1220x2440 |
Posted By: boycey
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 10:40pm
i had this phenomena the first time i heard WSXs 3 a side in a small-medium venue but i put that down to room modes/nodes, having heard labsubs outdoors the closer you get, the louder it gets. ------------- the only thing more dangerous than a person who doesn't give a f**k is a person who gives a sh*t. |
Posted By: boycey
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 10:41pm
oh, and f**king awesome design though you missed a part: the number for a good chiropractor 
------------- the only thing more dangerous than a person who doesn't give a f**k is a person who gives a sh*t. |
Posted By: sKs01
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 10:59pm
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2 18sound neo's only weigh 3Kg more than a single 1850 using the recommended driver it may weigh only a few Kg's more than a lab sub with descent Castor and handle positioning could well be tolerable day to day. ridiculously good design well done and i cant wait to hear some. ------------- You're a big man, but you're in bad shape. With me it's a full time job. Now behave yourself. |
Posted By: Preacher
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 11:22pm
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Looks heavy, but great!! When will you have a second made, to then have some proper madness? ------------- Stone Lion Sound System, The Garden City Rockers. It's all about the music & the vibe. |
Posted By: boycey
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 11:32pm
 ------------- the only thing more dangerous than a person who doesn't give a f**k is a person who gives a sh*t. |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 12:58pm
thanks! I am going to build 4 cabs after measurements first one
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Posted By: mstep77
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 7:03pm
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That is the most awesome thing i have seen on here in quite a while.
Amano=bass bin legend!
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Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 7:20pm
+1 Seriously considering not buying any scoops, till I've heard one of these.. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 7:45pm
| tomorrow i'll post v1 plan and data details.. |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 7:46pm
Oh, thanks a lot!
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Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 7:48pm
| Do you have a hornresp predicted plot of the v2? |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 7:48pm
Read private message! I have all data! I'll got it tomorrow from my job..
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Posted By: wafflesomd
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 9:16pm
5x5 ply or 4x8?
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Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 9:30pm
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1220mm x 2440mm = 4' x 8'
use your brain
this design looks mental ------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners. |
Posted By: TRE4U2NV
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:01pm
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i must comment and say this design looks to be the best we have had on here in a loooooooonnnng time
+10
amano
just need to see how it works in real ear test and best driver vs weight ratio not as young as i think i am
cheers ------------- IM SO SECRETIVE BUT I CANT TELL YOU WHY |
Posted By: Insomnia
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:07pm
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defo- cant wait to get my hammer and chisel out for this one!! ------------- Insomnia Sound Systems - Custom speaker cabinets built to order. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:40pm
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The thread I was crucified on, for suggesting this very thing.. http://forum.speakerplans.com/design-of-2x18-front-loaded-horn_topic12437_page1.html?KW=WSX - http://forum.speakerplans.com/design-of-2x18-front-loaded-horn_topic12437_page1.html?KW=WSX At least my sketch from 2 years ago was somewhat "on the way",
How times have changed ... ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:50pm
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Well Amano has solved the suspected problem with throat chamber and throat. |
Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:59pm
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Yeah Amano came up with a very neat solution. its obvious when you know how!
i designed a 2x18 of very similar spec, only problem was it would be very difficult to load drivers, also uneven cone loading, in a V shape
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Posted By: Gramps
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 5:43pm
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My god! That thing is a monster... I might even stop being such a boring old git and go out to a party if I knew there was going to be some of them there. Giz a heads up if there's anything happening in the cambs/norfolk area involving these things please somebody!
------------- To do a dull thing with style - now that's an art. |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 6:57pm
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http://amanosempai.narod.ru/meatgrinder_v1_acad2006_3dmodel.rar
Somebody must re-draw from Autocad to plan, because i have lost original plan of version 1 :(
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Posted By: tommysb
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 8:20pm
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Hi Amano, If you would like some guidance on measuring the response of these, this is what I'd do. Measure outdoors, in as big an area as possible. That way LF reflections etc will be minimised. Don't do 1w/1m measurements, use a bigger input power, (possibly a further distance) and extrapolate back to get the 1w/1m figure. Personally, I've had experience using a logarithmic sweep as well as MLS for measurements, I prefer using a log sweep. I can give you some .wav files to use if you like, and tell you how to process the results. Repeat the measurements and average the results to minimise the effect of environmental noise. What microphone are you planning on using? |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 9:03pm
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I have ecm8000+notebook without external soundcard.. Ok... How can i get .wav files you use?! Maybe depositfiles.com or rapidshare?
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Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 9:04pm
| I'm going to use JustMLS... Is it good for it? |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 9:15pm
| I would strongly recommend borrowing or sourcing a decent external soundcard if you're taking measurements. At the very least the mic needs phantom power. |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 31 July 2009 at 1:15pm
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HORNRESP DATA for MG218 v2: http://amanosempai.narod.ru/mg218.png  for v1. "SCOOPMODE" try to put Vrc=0 Rear Chamber size = 65L, throat chamber = 19L, S1=475, Sx=2950 per driver..
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Posted By: chowlu
Date Posted: 31 July 2009 at 2:58pm
love the design
------------- "adapt or die" |
Posted By: Strange Daze
Date Posted: 31 July 2009 at 4:06pm
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Jesus wept. I can't believe I've not seen this yet. I'm sat in an office, with half a dozen VERY impressed pro-audio bods... Big respect mate :) |
Posted By: mstep77
Date Posted: 31 July 2009 at 6:46pm
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http://yfrog.com/1omeatgrinderhornrespinpujx - http://img60.imageshack.us/i/meatgrinderhornrespinpu.jpg/"> Is it supposed to have a tiny port? |
http://g.imageshack.us/img60/meatgrinderhornrespinpu.jpg/1/">
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 31 July 2009 at 7:39pm
| I forgot to switch vented->closed Rear chamber... but it does not matter because Ap=0.... |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 03 August 2009 at 6:30pm
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4 of them with 18nlw9600 (1800W per driver) will do nominal SPL like 12-16WSX with 700W per driver.. in theory... After I build 4 of them i'll say to you truth!
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Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 03 August 2009 at 7:16pm
| I need beta-testers to build and measure this cab! |
Posted By: wash with gasoline
Date Posted: 03 August 2009 at 7:40pm
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Id love to build it, but i have no idea how to test it. Im in la. california usa if anyone around here has test equipment Looks like a great design to me, ive been trying to design a long horn but im just starting to learn. I keep coming across your threads as im looking for ideas... you are a busy man ------------- dry with match |
Posted By: shadow1
Date Posted: 03 August 2009 at 9:07pm
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Shizzle me nizzle ! Have you got a crane ready to lift it !
------------- Smile, the worst is yet to come. |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 03 August 2009 at 9:09pm
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I've been told a cubic meter of birch ply weights 750kg. If this thing needs 3 panels of 18mm ply, that alone would weight 120kg. I presume it wont eat whole 3 panels but more like two and a half... Also even though 18NLW9600 is ND, it still weights 14kg, so V18-1000 or PD1850 both weight somewhere around 20kg, it won't be too big difference. Some people have also expressed that its specs could be somewhat misleading, and it costs somewhere around two times the price of PD1850 or V18-1000, also it has slightly lower sensitivity than the two british, and with what kind of amplifiers could those beasts be driven with? |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 03 August 2009 at 9:14pm
| ...gawd I want to built those things! |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 12:42am
HR plot with my favourite FLH driver.  Amano, do you think the 70-120 resp could be smoothed slightly? No problem doing it with eq, but wondering if possibly larger driver throats needed? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 1:56am
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it can be smother in two ways: 1) Using in stack (minimum 2 cabs per side) 2) Mouth of horn must be 2x larger like big-bertha ;) and less throat chamber size ~10L per driver If you will use them in stack of 4 per side resp will be much smoother! Size of cab + resp +SPL is compromise i think! try to model how it will sound for 4 cabs, 8!
|
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 7:55pm
| I plan to do my next smaller cab, it will be 4x12" (4x800W), smaller than WSX, 1.7m horn lenght... nom SPL 50Hz ~138db.. |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 12:54am
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Been a while since I've logged on and I'm quite impressed that this is the first new design I've seen. I'm definetly going to be building a pair of these for testing, my friends have some shiny new void products I'd like to put these up against. ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 12:32pm
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4x12" http://amanosempai.narod.ru/412.PNG - http://amanosempai.narod.ru/412.PNG
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Posted By: jonny4288
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 12:33pm
| fair play another crazy looking design :P |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 12:37pm
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it's my smiley cab |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 12:42pm
| That 4x12" cab looks to only put out the same sort of response as a Punisher, which is considerably smaller and only needs one driver? |
Posted By: bitzo
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 12:50pm
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if this cab load 4 driver you have to compare it with 4 punisher.
------------- http://www.unitedroots.it - United Roots SoundSystem site |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 12:52pm
Put in hornresp Eg=74,83Volts and you'll see differences between my 4x12 cab and 1xPunisher... |
Posted By: Amano
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 12:56pm
| Drivers used in this design are cheaper than in punisher! and 1 cab 4x12 is smaller than 4xPunishers... And I'm forgot - you can use half version 2x12", it will be 550x818x666.. It's more powerful design! |
Posted By: rich, ind.st
Date Posted: 05 August 2009 at 3:52pm
nice ------------- music is god |
Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: 06 August 2009 at 1:46pm
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Amano the new designs are the most interesting thing on the forum for me, thanks for sharing these The 4 x 12" design seems to miss a couple of tricks in my eyes though. With a dual/quad driver bass design you can position drivers cleverly to cancel out panel resonances and reduce distortion. Wouldn't curved panels have a more beneficial effect at the start rather than the end of the horn (not sure whats best, i.e. is it worth going to the effort of curving panels at the end of the horn or is the effort better spent nearer the throat)? It seems that angling the drivers so they're pointing towards the middle more could reduce unused space, increase path length slightly and improve ease of driver access? Would mean less even loading on the driver though I guess. You like big cabs  |
Posted By: PolymorphicMark
Date Posted: 07 August 2009 at 12:44pm
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Have I missed the plans for this mighty horn? Very nice design ------------- Free to do what i WANT |