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how did this happen?

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Category: General
Forum Name: Electro Frying Forum
Forum Description: Talk about drivers, processors and mixers
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=56735
Printed Date: 29 March 2024 at 3:32pm
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Topic: how did this happen?
Posted By: cravings
Subject: how did this happen?
Date Posted: 09 September 2011 at 10:10am
checked a pair of turbosound txd12m monitors yesterday.. one of them sounded totally terrible.. investigation revealed this....







the magnet has totally split. there's damage to the crossover board too... melted wadding around the big coil, and one of the capacitors has literally exploded.

what would have caused all this to happen? the driver still reads ok on the meter, and some sound muffles its way out of it.. but the coil is totally trapped in the broken magnet.

i'm sure i remember seeing a post by someone (peter moller maybe? maybe not..) who had the crossover in one of these boxes go on fire.. but i can't find that now.

and also what to do. i've looked on the board and someone said the LS1219 driver is actually a p-audio E12-200atw... does anyone know if this is true, or the cheapest way to get this speaker back to normal quickly?

thanks..



Replies:
Posted By: JR.junior
Date Posted: 09 September 2011 at 10:47am
This often happens, if the driver/magnet is still hot and you move the speaker, and than you hit hard ond the cabinet accidentaly... the ceramic is fragile @ very hot temp.

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Support the scoop technology, larger mouth plays louder!


Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 10 September 2011 at 3:08pm
If the crossover has gone I would assume it has been vastly overdriven, blowing the network and heating the magnet - and that with a knock would do it.  Ouch.

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music is the message


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 10 September 2011 at 4:47pm
could it have been the other way round? as in... driver got hot, box dropped, driver cracked.... and on next usage, the stuck driver caused some impedence change or something which caused the crossover to take too much power?

trying to work out can i "blame" someone for this..


Posted By: kingkwak
Date Posted: 11 September 2011 at 4:43pm
One of my txd 121 xovers has had blown caps, the whole xover is made by elytone. You are right about the driver, should have no problems replacing that.
After one of the caps went on mine it changed the sound slightly, but was sending different frequencies other than those it was designed for, I am supposing that my driver would of given in if not noticed. A coment on my post about the replacement of caps has sugested that replacing them with the same value but higher voltage should protect the xover (and hopfully the driver) in future. 


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To much power? NEVER.


Posted By: Peter Jan
Date Posted: 11 September 2011 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

could it have been the other way round? as in... driver got hot, box dropped, driver cracked.... and on next usage, the stuck driver caused some impedence change or something which caused the crossover to take too much power?


If it were the other way around, you probably would find some traces on the cab outside and generally the whole magnet shifts or cracks off entirely if it had got a serious drop or blow. I've seen many split magnets like that and it's always after driven (too) hard. In many cases the filters is damaged also, just like yours now. Filter components don't burn in the time you need to find out that something isn't right, let's say a few minutes, it must have taken maybe several hours to get damaged like that. What you have there is the result of a too long/too hard driven speaker.

The speaker is a P Audio for sure, I can't say if it's a regular of custom speaker.
 



Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 12 September 2011 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by JR.junior JR.junior wrote:

This often happens, if the driver/magnet is still hot and you move the speaker, and than you hit hard ond the cabinet accidentaly... the ceramic is fragile @ very hot temp.
What kind of temp are we talking about, warm to the touch, hot to the touch, or freaking hot??? i've always wondered what kind of temperature a voice-coil and or magnet assembly can handle before breaking. never got the magnets of my l18p300 loaded miss piggy sub warmer then hand warm and that was with some serious power on them (120db @1m continuous, 135db@peaks for about one hour)


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Best regards,
Teun.


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 19 December 2011 at 4:38pm
ok the other one has cracked now. and i remember now that the guy i got them off had had one of the drivers crack on him too... he'd had it replaced with the correct turbo one.

so now.. i don't think i'm even looking for turbo replacemnts... i'd rather the cone / coil gave up first than the actual magnet... i realise these have obviously had the knackers driven out of them when i wasn't around (one was on one channel of a matrix ukp2100x at the time, the other on a matrix xp1500 at the time), but i think some tougher / cheaper / easier to get drivers is what i want.

unless someone from turbosound actually reads this.. contact me with info on how to get correct parts..

so

any suggestions on 12" drivers for a very small "full range" wedge box? might have a stab at working out the volume and the ports in a bit.. circular drivers are good, i have a pair of the neo pds in the workshop waiting for me to build more mt121s.. the shape of them means they won't fit in this box.

any thoughts? will obviously search around etc but i'm just grumbling now cos i've just found the second one is gone..


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 19 December 2011 at 5:22pm
just read this topic here too (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,2309.0.html)
this does seem to happen to these drivers so.


Posted By: noiseboy
Date Posted: 19 December 2011 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

ok the other one has cracked now. and i remember now that the guy i got them off had had one of the drivers crack on him too... he'd had it replaced with the correct turbo one.

so now.. i don't think i'm even looking for turbo replacemnts... i'd rather the cone / coil gave up first than the actual magnet... i realise these have obviously had the knackers driven out of them when i wasn't around (one was on one channel of a matrix ukp2100x at the time, the other on a matrix xp1500 at the time), but i think some tougher / cheaper / easier to get drivers is what i want.

unless someone from turbosound actually reads this.. contact me with info on how to get correct parts..

so

any suggestions on 12" drivers for a very small "full range" wedge box? might have a stab at working out the volume and the ports in a bit.. circular drivers are good, i have a pair of the neo pds in the workshop waiting for me to build more mt121s.. the shape of them means they won't fit in this box.

any thoughts? will obviously search around etc but i'm just grumbling now cos i've just found the second one is gone..

 Yeah annoying isn't it I've had magnets move/crack on expensive drivers which means they're pretty much scrap!  

 Whereas the odd few cheapo Eminence and Celestion I have seem to survive, only occasionally blowing a coil which can be easily and cheaply reconed or just replace the whole driver.

 I sometimes wonder about expensive drivers on mid range/upper bass duty.

 The Celestion Truvox 1525  is pretty good sounding on mid duty if not driven too hard, as yet never had a magnet move and cheap as chips to keep a few on stock.  Makes you wonder!











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www.ctaudiovisual.co.uk
www.cornucopiafestival.co.uk


Posted By: krazyneil
Date Posted: 19 December 2011 at 6:53pm
hi cravings
why not speak to tony wilkes about some bms drivers as they always get good reviews on here and tony good on pricing Smile

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GOD TOLD ME TO DO IT !!!!!


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 19 December 2011 at 6:59pm
i have indeed bought some bms off tony and am open to any specific suggestions for 12" drivers for very small wedge monitor type applications...

the stock passive xover in these crosses over at 1.8khz with the stock parts in it.


Posted By: djkeet
Date Posted: 06 January 2012 at 11:20pm
I think I would also change the resistors as well to a higher voltage with a metal heatsink as oppose to the ceramic body type


Posted By: wayward91
Date Posted: 07 January 2012 at 12:10am
one of my rcf monitors has a similar kind of thing happening. i cant decide if its from mechanical shock only or overdriving it. there seems to be a small surface chip and a surface hairline crack a few inches long coming from it. i have driven them pretty hard in the past with about 400wrms near clip for a few hours.
should i be concerned ?


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 07 January 2012 at 11:55am
the magnet is cracked but the driver still works ok?


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 07 January 2012 at 11:56am
to follow up on this, i've ordered a pair of BMS 12s320 from tony. it looks like they'll only just fit exactly.. from what i can work out anyway. will follow up when they arrive how i go.


Posted By: wayward91
Date Posted: 07 January 2012 at 1:43pm
ye the magnet is craked but it works. i opened the cab because there was intermitent minor distortion from the woofer. i have touched up all the solder joints on the crossover and it seems to be fine now but i guess it could have been that ?


Posted By: service dept Steve
Date Posted: 07 January 2012 at 2:57pm
Sorry to barge in but the clue was at the beginning, This is from a monitor and so therefore it is simple: it has been dropped off the stage. No hot, no overdrive, no distorted signal, just deceleration trauma. Find out who was in charge and give them the bill.

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We are not "They", We are "The others" http://www.servicedept.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.servicedept.co.uk -


Posted By: wayward91
Date Posted: 07 January 2012 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by service dept Steve service dept Steve wrote:

Sorry to barge in but the clue was at the beginning, This is from a monitor and so therefore it is simple: it has been dropped off the stage. No hot, no overdrive, no distorted signal, just deceleration trauma. Find out who was in charge and give them the bill.


not sure if this was regarding my post but if its is , i left a small detail out. its a diddy rcf monitor 8 LOL i have made a pole mount adaptor for them and used them to do a small pub event (very small pub) .


Posted By: Dub Specialist
Date Posted: 07 January 2012 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

checked a pair of turbosound txd12m monitors yesterday.. one of them sounded totally terrible.. investigation revealed this....







the magnet has totally split. there's damage to the crossover board too... melted wadding around the big coil, and one of the capacitors has literally exploded.

what would have caused all this to happen? the driver still reads ok on the meter, and some sound muffles its way out of it.. but the coil is totally trapped in the broken magnet.

i'm sure i remember seeing a post by someone (peter moller maybe? maybe not..) who had the crossover in one of these boxes go on fire.. but i can't find that now.

and also what to do. i've looked on the board and someone said the LS1219 driver is actually a p-audio E12-200atw... does anyone know if this is true, or the cheapest way to get this speaker back to normal quickly?

thanks..
 
stick to Sound Lab dont happen to them..lolLOL


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treat all creation with respect. For music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion! MUSIC IS LIFE


Posted By: mrspeedy
Date Posted: 07 January 2012 at 4:55pm
Thats because the only magnet on a Soundlab is similar to that of a souvenir fridge magnet from Malawi. 


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 07 January 2012 at 7:11pm
i dont think it's just physical trauma. that's 4 of these turbo drivers in these cabs i know of ending up like this. my 2 (different incidents), one belonging to the guy i bought the boxes from, and one on psw someone mentioned.

anyway. gonna see how the replacements go.. if they fit.


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 13 March 2012 at 7:49pm
they don't.

it's actually the top hat is stopping them from fitting.. and the way the top hats are mounted is a bit tricky... removing them may end up a bit destructive.

not sure what to do really with them now.. could really do with them working again..

also have a pair of the bms12s320 now to do something with.. wondering if they'll work in a single smt cab..


Posted By: soundguymatt
Date Posted: 08 September 2013 at 11:08pm
What happened with your boxes in the end? 



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Matt


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 08 September 2013 at 11:11pm
they're on the shelf. haven't come across any other 12" drivers that fit them.


Posted By: gezz-abba
Date Posted: 13 March 2017 at 8:28pm
hi there,
its my first posting here and so sorry for exhuming this old thread. Maybe its still actual: Beyma SM212 will fit exactly into the cab of txd12m. Same screw hole diameter, same magnet diameter. . Sounds nearly the same, as the original turbosound ( p.audio ) driver. A tiny bit more pleasant in the lower mids around 500hz , when ringing out with SM58. I also changed the 25 microfarad condenser on the crossover network to 20mikrofarad. Gives less harsh sounding effect in upper midrange. Hope i could help, although a few years later.. .
regards,
arnt from germany..


Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 13 March 2017 at 10:09pm
Thumbs Up

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It's everything, not everythink!


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 13 March 2017 at 10:22pm
excellent contribution
indeed!


Posted By: soundguymatt
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

haven't come across any other 12" drivers that fit them.

Just in case you wanted a suggestion - I know the fane12-300 fitted in mine, I have them in there while I was waiting for the p-audio replacements. 


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--

Matt



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