Shortman's Mini Scoop Design (Heavyweight Line)
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: Scoops
Forum Description: One scoop or two ;-)
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7821
Printed Date: 19 March 2024 at 1:50am Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Shortman's Mini Scoop Design (Heavyweight Line)
Posted By: Tekasis
Subject: Shortman's Mini Scoop Design (Heavyweight Line)
Date Posted: 17 December 2006 at 7:33pm
Shortman's Mini Scoop design bass boxes.
35'' high
30'' deep
23'' wide
Same width & depth as his normal scoops.
If you like heavy deep bass line especially for roots reggae music, check these out.
A stack of 4 is thunderours.
What you think ?
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Replies:
Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 17 December 2006 at 7:41pm
Looks great.
When are you going to post the plan then.
If your not, then you know what you have to do.
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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 12:14am
tekasis! can you explain why they would be heavier and deeper in sound please?
because from my knowledge chopping a scoop in half would do the opposite
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 8:19am
Rog Mogale wrote:
Looks great.
When are you going to post the plan then. If your not, then you know what you have to do.
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I ain't got no plans Rog.
mykey wrote:
tekasis! can you explain why they would be heavier and deeper in sound please? because from my knowledge chopping a scoop in half would do the opposite
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I can't explain Mykey as I don't actually build them, but from what I've seen over the years, this cab or any short scoop that anyone makes is not really chopped in half is it ?
It's just the a bottom section been shortened by about a foot or in some case a foot & a half.
No direspect to your knowledge on scoops, but it may be out of date now, things have changed. Further more you don't even like scoops & you don't like PD1850s, so how can you comment on something that you've never heard ?
Since you built them sounds a long time ago which you always talk about, they don't even sound as good as the sound systems around nowadays. Maybe at the time you thought they did.
I'm the type of person who don't rely on computer specs to see if a cab would work, I rather listen to it, & if it does the job, so be it.
PS: I don't know what's happened to Jah Youth's sound system as we don't hear bout them any more, but Logic system isn't around no more, a mate of ours as some of their boxes & equipment.
Must admit though there boxes still do sound good loaded with the Volt drivers, which I heard inside a venue this summer.
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Posted By: biotec
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 8:34am
unsound system have still got some of mykeys scoops, they're temporarily installed in the redstar club in camberwell.
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Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 8:44am
This is funny is this.
What is it about scoops and arguing.
Think scoops should be re categorised under offesive weapons. Ha, you can't kill anyone by playing them, but you can when you talk about them.
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Posted By: Static Age
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 8:52am
i have to agree Rog. it seems like most of the sounds that use the scoops are trying to spread a positive message but when it comes down to who's scoops are made by who and who's are best things can get quite heated.
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 9:27am
Rog Mogale wrote:
This is funny is this.
What is it about scoops and arguing.
Think scoops should be re categorised under offesive weapons. Ha, you can't kill anyone by playing them, but you can when you talk about them.
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Why do you think we're arguing Roger ?
This ain't no argument, this is just how we get our point across
Their ain't no argument going on here. If any of you call this arguing, I think you must be either hot or guilty of something.
It's just the other day some of you experts got interested in reggae music anyway, most of you don't even like reggae music. (that may sound like an argument, but it ain't)
You can't mix PA system with Sound System which play reggae music.
Reggae music likes to be played with a deep bass line, but as soon as we start our own discussion, man & man just jumps on it to stamp it down, why is that ?
I hope it ain't because shortman's name is mention again.
Everywhere I turn, the TV, the media, the internet etc... people are dissing & fighting down the way we talk, our music, the way we dress, what is it all about ?
Now we got our thread for scoops, let us talk in it the way we want to, I don't want to argue, I may sound a bit abrubt sometimes. but that's just the way I talk. I always tell people don't take it personal, don't feel no way or no disrespect, then I say what I want to say.
You see any problem with that ?
I realize some of the people on here start to run down peoples work & they've never even heard it.
I put a picture of a mid tops box I saw the other day, someone is cussing it already, but they never heard it, I then find out it's an ASS box. Imagine a newbie see that & think the box is sh*te, not knowing the box would sound good.
That's why I only listen to some of the members on here, because some of them think the know's it all bout sound.
I learn't a lot of info from the replies on my questions on compression drivers, why can't this one be the same ?
I'd be grateful Let me know.
Hope you Realize, some of the members said they were glad that scoops got their own section so they don't read about it in other threads, I hope it stays like that, then we wont have to read their cheeky running down comments.
Peace out.
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Posted By: hikk
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 10:26am
Tekasis wrote:
Everywhere I turn, the TV, the media, the internet etc... people are dissing & fighting down the way we talk, our music, the way we dress, what is it all about ? |
Who is WE ? who is OUR? again WE???? please whats this all about.....
To argue isnt always bad!Presenting ones oppinion in opposition to someone elses oppinion is PRESENTING ARGUMENT/S...... I think what some are reffering to is the way in which you present your arguments....
anyhow whos this WE THING?
------------- without the knowledge of ones HISTORY ,one cannot determin ones destiny!
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 11:48am
hikk wrote:
Tekasis wrote:
Everywhere I turn, the TV, the media, the internet etc... people are dissing & fighting down the way we talk, our music, the way we dress, what is it all about ? |
Who is WE ? who is OUR? again WE???? please whats this all about.....
To argue isnt always bad!Presenting ones oppinion in opposition to someone elses oppinion is PRESENTING ARGUMENT/S...... I think what some are reffering to is the way in which you present your arguments....
anyhow whos this WE THING? |
When I say we, I'm dealing with the people who love reggae music & real ghetto sound system.
The other day I was listening to LBC one evening, the presenter 'Ian Lea' decided to talk about music, his opening words were "I hate reggae music, I think it's rubbish" I couldn't believe it, on national radio. That's where you heard some proper arguments, even from his own race, they cussed him hard.
I'm a telecoms contrator who works around the world,, everywhere I go I hear the same thing, even in my workplace in UK.
I don't really like to argue with anyone, but if someone gets a bit lemon (renk) I'll defend talk/myself.
I don't present arguments Hikk, if anything, from what I've seen on here over the past few months, I've noticed you love an argument & like to stir things up.
Others like to go on like they know everything about every single cab that exists. it don't work like that.
You were the first person on here whoever give me any cheeky out-of- order reply.
The way I see it, who like trance, house, punk, pop etc...they love high punchy loud bass, who likes roots dub reggae music loves deep round sub bass. So we can't be saying one type of box is better that another.
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Posted By: hikk
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 12:28pm
Tekasis wrote:
When I say we, I'm dealing with the people who love reggae music & real ghetto sound system.\
WELL i play live eat and breath reggae 24/7 have a sound and in my oppinion its a ghetto sound as far as that can living in europe.I mean you have them that are bought READY MADE like they dont even know what drivers they have wont play with you unless you have a big hat and smoke the right herb so no unity within the WE .Same way you present the SCOOP thing of yours.
I certainly dont feal part of your we!With respect.
Someone made a remark about they are all roots untill scoops get brought into it !!! Well they are correct but it doesnt stop there .....They of all people should know better ..............................................
I don't present arguments Hikk, if anything, from what I've seen on here over the past few months, I've noticed you love an argument & like to stir things up.
Sorry again i think you do like everyone else .. BUt then im being argumentative according to the way you sight things.
You were the first person on here whoever give me any cheeky out-of- order reply.
Did I what was that then ? Well i am ,like yourself ,who i am !Was what you have just said or not!
Bet you wont/cannot answer that? If you do quote yourself as well so we may analise what actually was said .....
If its point the finger time you do post some bullsh*t well most of the time i cannot work out if your stupid or PLAYING TOM DRUNK ...This may sound disrespectfull ????? It is a genuin thought that i have......You say your an engineer ? or do you just hold the TOOLS ?
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Whats wrong with having an oppinion about another sort of music ? I mean i think some music sorts/ types are absolute SHI>T... No matter how hard i try it remains BOLLACKS ...... Alot of rock falls like that with me ........[not all by far]....... But voicing that its, ok i think, i would draw the line at holding that type or person down ...ME never ! eg i buy/download alot for my daughter who likes the sort i actually really dislike also have played a few times at rock concerts yes reggae ......I mean i would help someone get where they think they should be sometimes against my better judgement!
Ok because you like reggae it you will hear it when said about reggae but its also said about other music .Maybe even yourself!
I have been all around the world aswell ever since i was born my whole life and its not just reggae...........................
Like yourself I AM JUST BEING ME !!
------------- without the knowledge of ones HISTORY ,one cannot determin ones destiny!
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Posted By: soundsystemdan
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 12:55pm
Hikk, am I right in thinking that English is not your first language?
perhaps a re phrase is in order
instead of 'x' music or 'x' speaker is sh*t, try saying I don't like 'x' music or 'x' speaker.
------------- http://dancomsound.com" rel="nofollow - http://dancomsound.com
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Posted By: hikk
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 1:04pm
soundsystemdan wrote:
Hikk, am I right in thinking that English is not your first language?
perhaps a re phrase is in order
instead of 'x' music or 'x' speaker is sh*t, try saying I don't like 'x' music or 'x' speaker.
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LOL LOL is that the best you can do dan the man?pfffffffffffffffffffffff mietje of niet soms.
Actually i feel that the only mistake in that perticular sentance was the use of is instead of ARE..................................
------------- without the knowledge of ones HISTORY ,one cannot determin ones destiny!
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Posted By: soundsystemdan
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 2:02pm
never mind (unsubscribing to this sthread)
------------- http://dancomsound.com" rel="nofollow - http://dancomsound.com
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 19 December 2006 at 4:24am
Don't blame you Dan.
mykey wrote:
tekasis! can you explain why they would be heavier and deeper in sound please?
because from my knowledge chopping a scoop in half would do the opposite |
Shortman has told me that inside the rear chamber of his mini scoops are different from his full size ones, to assist in making the box sound proper.
(No PC needed for build design, just by sight, ear & common sense)
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Posted By: Tom Umney
Date Posted: 19 December 2006 at 12:53pm
Are they simular to the Wembley B-lines then? Or different?
Also have you heard Shortman's mini scoop design yet? If yes what do they compaire to? Wembley B Lines? 15 inch scoops? etc
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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 19 December 2006 at 9:27pm
i'm with tekasis! i didnt think we were arguing either
maybe it's the way we write thing's?
i just wanted to know incase shortman has cracked something we aint
you say he has moved a pannel in the box? this wont make a box play lower, it mite tighten it some, but as for playing lower he would have to make it a bigger box not smaller
ps: my favourite music is dub/reggae
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 20 December 2006 at 9:08am
Tom Umney wrote:
Are they simular to the Wembley B-lines then? Or different?
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Completely different, It's based on a scoop just a bit shorter. Wembleys hardly have any interior, the mini's have the full scoop design in the rear chamber.
Tom Umney wrote:
Also have you heard Shortman's mini scoop design yet? If yes what do they compaire to? Wembley B Lines? 15 inch scoops? etc |
I hear them all the time.
I've never heard a wembly B-Line, but from what I see of the B-Lines, I don't think it drop like Shortmans Mini-Scoops, but I'd need to hear one first to really say, you know.
There's a Club/Wine Bar in Sth London called Brockwells, near to Brockwell Park, it's quite a biggish size (2 shop fronts in one), there's 1 of his Mini Scoops in there, there used to be 2 but too much bass which brought a few complaints, so one was removed.
Just to give you a brief idea what his mini-scoops sound like, he built a sub box for a car, & on testing it in his workshop, he rested it in one of these empty minis scoops from the front, & if you heard the thunder coming out of this thing, you can just imagine what it sounds like loaded with a PD1850, 186 or Void V-18 1000.
If / When you come down Toxic, If he's too busy, I'll personally give you a sneak preview.
I saw a Beyma 1200w Neo 18'' driver the other day, which will soon be tested in both the Mini & Full scoop, I'll let you know how that sounds.
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 20 December 2006 at 9:28am
Cheers Mykey,
Glad you confirmed that.
Anyway, I don't when you last heard Logic scoop boxes, maybe a few years now, well I can tell you, they are still going strong. (Indoors & Outdoors)
I did post a little write up a few months back about hearing them outdoors @ Burgess Park in Camberwell one summer.
On approach to the park a good distance away, I honestly thought I was going to see loads of PA boxes, but to my amazement, I saw only 8 scoops loaded with Volt Drivers (2 stacks of 4).
It's the first time I'd ever seen scoops on a stage which sounded so good.
I heard them again this summer indoors in a L-Shaped Pub/club in Great Yarmouth week-ender, just 3 of them, everything sounded precise.
There was another sound system in another hall on the same complex which had 9 scoops in there...
I won't say no more, there was no comparison. Even the owner of the system with these 9 bins came & heard 3 of logic boxes, I think he felt a bit ?????? (Don't even know what to put)
So when you going to post your scoop design then Mykey ? Cause I know them good!!!
So I can see who really builds the heaviest deepest sounding scoop. (Me personally not interest in long throwing, cause how far is meant to be thrown ? I hope nobody says the bin. )
I think a next bass shoot out is needed, maybe a scoop one.
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Posted By: Static Age
Date Posted: 20 December 2006 at 9:41am
Tekasis wrote:
If / When you come down Toxic, If he's too busy, I'll personally give you a sneak preview.
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sorry to change subject slightly but do you work for shortman then Tekasis?
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 20 December 2006 at 9:57am
Static Age wrote:
Tekasis wrote:
If / When you come down Toxic, If he's too busy, I'll personally give you a sneak preview.
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sorry to change subject slightly but do you work for shortman then Tekasis? |
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 20 December 2006 at 10:01am
Joke Static Age.
It's X-Mas man, & we under we white rum & a few stellas at work.
Seriously though, true he's not really a PC man, he asks me sometimes to put up things for him.
What makes you ask anyway ?
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Posted By: Static Age
Date Posted: 20 December 2006 at 10:33am
it sounded by what you were saying in your post that you must either be good mates with Shortman or work for him. i asked purely out of interest, its handy to know if someone is in the cabinet building trade especially if its scoops as i use them myself.
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 20 December 2006 at 12:32pm
Static Age wrote:
it sounded by what you were saying in your post that you must either be good mates with Shortman or work for him. i asked purely out of interest, its handy to know if someone is in the cabinet building trade especially if its scoops as i use them myself. |
I see what you mean, I just know him, would you believe it if I said I personally ain't got none of his cabs ? I got access to loads of them though.
Quite a few old time ravers & sound men know him from way back when he used to play Frontline sound system.
You're exactly right though, it's very handy to know someone in that trade, as sometimes we need something done quickly & we ain't got the space to work or if the weather is bad, we just give him a ring. If he aint busy, he sorts it out, or we just do it ourselves.
Don't you use short (mini) scoops ?
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Posted By: Static Age
Date Posted: 20 December 2006 at 1:08pm
never heard any of the (mini) short scoops. i use full size scoops & EV T18's which are kind of a small scoop.
i would like to here the mini scoops some time but i'm a bit far away just to make a journey to shortmans for a listen.
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 05 January 2007 at 3:41am
Another builder has his own style of mini-scoops which he's added a few of his own trinkets to.
A few mates of mine prefers this size as they are much narrower than Shortmans design.
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Posted By: Tom Umney
Date Posted: 05 January 2007 at 2:22pm
Tekasis wrote:
Another builder has his own style of mini-scoops which he's added a few of his own trinkets to.
A few mates of mine prefers this size as they are much narrower than Shortmans design.
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Still looks full size almost, certainlly the top picture.
How big is the scoop in the bottom picture? Smaller than a normal 15 inch scoop?
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Posted By: Sunil
Date Posted: 05 January 2007 at 3:16pm
No way, they are larger than a standard scoop. Ive been to his workshop and the pics lookin decieving
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 07 January 2007 at 1:14am
Tom Umney wrote:
Still looks full size almost, certainlly the top picture.
How big is the scoop in the bottom picture? Smaller than a normal 15 inch scoop? |
Toxic, both the pictures are exactly the same size cab.
They're about the same size as a 15'' scoop, but sounds better.
Sunil wrote:
No way, they are larger than a standard scoop. Ive been to his workshop and the pics lookin decieving |
Both of you must have used a camera before ? I know you do Toxic, so you must understand angles, aperture, macro & so on.
Sunil, I know 100% you're on about the 2 large scoops either side of the 186 folded horn cab in Ultimate Sounds workshop, ain't it ? These pics are not them.
These are the short scoops you saw. The pic was just taken close up.
I'll put up the pics of the later ot the cut-off (mini-scoop) I collected.
You wanna see the mid-tops cabs...Criss no bombo.
You wanna here those scoops which are larger than a standard scoop loaded with a PD1850...
I think yourself would be frightened. It's a shame you couldn't come. I'll be back up there again soon.
A next thing, no pre-amp used, & it sounded serious.
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 07 January 2007 at 9:36pm
Posted By: Sunil
Date Posted: 08 January 2007 at 5:33am
Flipping hell, i love those midtop cabs. They look sexy. lol. Yeah man i rate his designs anyway, i told him that. Im sad i missed out on the testing session though. Oh well. Another time....
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Posted By: Sunil
Date Posted: 08 January 2007 at 5:38am
Lynx, how deep is the mini scoop. (as in size)
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 08 January 2007 at 5:35pm
Sunil wrote:
Lynx, how deep is the mini scoop. (as in size) |
73cm (28.75'')
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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 09 January 2007 at 8:54am
the phase bungs look like they came out of a megaphone?
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 16 January 2007 at 5:29pm
There's a reggae sound system from back in the day from over the waters (Nth London) called "Gemi In-Ting Magic" Any of the old time ravers remember them ?
Well they have a few Mini Scoops now, they've scaled down a bit, & the amount of calls coming in regarding these, it seems as if a lot of sounds nowadays are using these mini's, due to their size & the way they perform, & parking up the full size scoops.
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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 17 January 2007 at 12:27am
east London
i know gemi magic
ask trev4unv about mini scoops he was using red one's made by some yank when you lot were still playing with action men
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.
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Posted By: TRE4U2NV
Date Posted: 17 January 2007 at 9:49pm
GEMI [IN TING] MAGIC have been around for decades they are one of the heaviest sounds in the uk right now and i have never really said that before but they are one of three or four sound that really understand the game properly in england without all the ho ha that normally surrounds a sound that is asked for globally when any overseas sound come to england pretty much one of the nicest bloke too
probally londons most hired sound on the reggae/rnb/garage seen
IMHO he has a heavier bass line than aba and earthquake people who really know would have to be deaf not to know of gemi
i sound like a gemi man but im not connected with them in any way apart from being my freind of many years very humble but if you used to go to shenolas banquet new years eve tyson street,acola street ,kokonut grove you,ll understand more systems than you can count too
------------- IM SO SECRETIVE BUT I CANT TELL YOU WHY
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 20 January 2007 at 9:35am
TRE4U2NV wrote:
One of the nicest bloke too,
probally londons most hired sound on the reggae/rnb/garage seen
If you used to go to shenolas banquet new years eve tyson street,acola street ,kokonut grove you,ll understand more systems than you can count too |
I used to go Shenolas every Friday them days when it was kicking, & new years eve.
The amount of people that use to attend that dance was unbelievable.
Very cool guy for true.
My mate keeps a yearly 70s dance in Earls Win Bar in cental London, & it's normally Gemi's set he uses.
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Posted By: Tom Umney
Date Posted: 20 January 2007 at 4:20pm
GEMI [IN TING] MAGIC. Never ever heard of them.
Any myspace link or sound system pics for them would be wicked?
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Posted By: TRE4U2NV
Date Posted: 20 January 2007 at 9:51pm
the only reason everbody uses them because there good
system wise its like aba but imho louder and definately deeper
------------- IM SO SECRETIVE BUT I CANT TELL YOU WHY
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 21 January 2007 at 9:15am
Full scoops just landed...
Loaded with Void V-18 1000's @ the mo' which sounds good, but sounds even better, lower & rounder loaded with PD1850's.
For any confirmation on testing, check Jah Tubbys or Shortman himself.
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 21 January 2007 at 10:59am
Tom Umney wrote:
GEMI [IN TING] MAGIC. Never ever heard of them.
Any myspace link or sound system pics for them would be wicked?
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Not sure yet, will find out.
They normally use 6 of shortmans mini-scoops & they sound crazy.
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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 22 January 2007 at 12:51am
looking tidy
so is that the v18 1000 tekasis
i've never seen one
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.
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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 22 January 2007 at 12:55am
Tom Umney wrote:
GEMI [IN TING] MAGIC. Never ever heard of them.
Any myspace link or sound system pics for them would be wicked?
| Andy! theres me thinking you were the A-Z of who's who in the reggae seen
he's is one of the nicest calmest people you could meet in the game
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.
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Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 22 January 2007 at 5:04am
Tekasis wrote:
Full scoops just landed...
Loaded with Void V-18 1000's @ the mo' which sounds good, but sounds even better, lower & rounder loaded with PD1850's.
For any confirmation on testing, check Jah Tubbys or Shortman himself.
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Are these shortman, Midland Guy or or JTS scoops Tek?
------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 22 January 2007 at 8:12am
They're Shortmans Levyte.
I don't think JTS makes scoops (anymore), he has a few of these too as seen on the University of Dub post.
mykey wrote:
so is that the v18 1000 tekasis
i've never seen one |
Yes Mykey, That's a v18 1000 loaded in them.
As soon as I have time, I'm gonna try one of the Volts in there to hear how it sounds, cause I know you speak highly of them.
It's a pity it can't fit into a standard super scoops ain't it.
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Posted By: RiddimKid
Date Posted: 24 January 2007 at 5:58pm
How much are shortman's & Mr ultimate's mini scoops?
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 25 January 2007 at 7:40am
RiddimKid wrote:
How much are shortman's & Mr ultimate's mini scoops? |
They're both the same price. Check your PM.
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Posted By: RiddimKid
Date Posted: 26 January 2007 at 8:22am
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 26 January 2007 at 8:39am
Tekasis wrote:
They're Shortmans Levyte.
I don't think JTS makes scoops (anymore), he has a few of these too as seen on the University of Dub post.
mykey wrote:
so is that the v18 1000 tekasis
i've never seen one |
Yes Mykey, That's a v18 1000 loaded in them.
As soon as I have time, I'm gonna try one of the Volts in there to hear how it sounds, cause I know you speak highly of them.
It's a pity it can't fit into a standard super scoops ain't it.
| well they must fit into Shorman's because the panel is far back, i had to mod all mine by cutting a circle out of the baffle then replacing a piece behind, quite simple really
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 11 March 2007 at 5:06pm
mykey wrote:
well they must fit into Shorman's because the panel is far back, i had to mod all mine by cutting a circle out of the baffle then replacing a piece behind, quite simple really |
Mykey, do you reckon this is a better choice of doing this to cater for deeper drivers, other than deepening the rear chamber slightly, or adding a 2nd baffle to the front of the cab ?
Once the scoop box has has been built & it's then realized the driver can't fit, ain't it too late to do it your way ?
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 18 April 2007 at 3:48am
edited - Collated & moved questions on Mykey's scoops to: http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9657&PN=1 - http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9657&PN=1
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 29 April 2007 at 11:53am
Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 06 May 2007 at 12:14am
Posted By: Sunil
Date Posted: 08 May 2007 at 5:41pm
Is the turbomax driver yours Tek??
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 08 May 2007 at 6:27pm
Mi borrow it!!! Why, you selling me one of yours ?
Come on mate, sell me one ah yours, I'll bring up a Mini scoop or a full one, which ever you prefer, to your front door, fresh out the workshop, you pay the petrol, sorted. Heavy weight-line for bedroom.
We even go check Mr Ultimate, & see if the mini can rumble down his big scoop.
What you saying ?
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Posted By: Sunil
Date Posted: 08 May 2007 at 7:52pm
lool u dont give up do u
Cant do it maaaan. I love them too much. Gonna get my boxes sorted anways. So things should be up and runnin soooon!!!
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Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 20 May 2007 at 12:32am
If your thinking of making a mini scoop or comparing other mini scoops, wouldnt a Looney or 1850 Horn sound better that mini scoops, for the overall size of the cabs, would the Looney or 180 Horn sound better.
What do you guys think ???
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http://imageshack.us/"> | |
------------- Sticks n Stones
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 20 May 2007 at 12:56am
Well Champion, don't know if you heard this lot in Notting Hill carnival couple years ago...
+
There's 20 Looneys there, which were in 2 stacks. It sounded good, but needed more low sub.
I'd put my money on 20 Mini's shaking that lot up on Sub-Bass, maybe not high punch bass.
Listening to Lord Gellys down the road with 12 scoops (A.S.S I think) sounded more solid.
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Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 20 May 2007 at 2:14am
CHAMPION wrote:
If your thinking of making a mini scoop or comparing other mini scoops, wouldnt a Looney or 1850 Horn sound better that mini scoops, for the overall size of the cabs, would the Looney or 180 Horn sound better.
What do you guys think ???
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Not a chance mate.
6 1850's will get approx lower 40's - 150hz flat, with superb kick.
4 looneys Will get you the above.
4x 186 horns sound lovely, would get you to flat to 45hz, but not as much kick, and not as much SPL.
4x correctly built/driven mini's with 1850's, V18, Bline 800 would get you thunderous SPL 35-60, but MUST have kick bin. If not crossed less than 70hz, the 80hz & above would overpower all the sub.
So Choose where you need the SPL. Heavy heavy sub + kick bin, or flatter response without kick bin but lower spl.
------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".
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Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 20 May 2007 at 2:17am
Yeah, and the 2 stacks were over 60 meters away from each other. So how does two stacks 60 meters away = 20 looney bins.
So what you stood infront of was 12 bins in 1 location and 8 bins in another location.
Size. Biggest wins. Do the math. Size of 12 looney bins and the size of 12 ASS scoops. If 8 scoops are the same size as 12 looneys, then its one way of comparing it.
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 20 May 2007 at 11:12am
Rog Mogale wrote:
Yeah, and the 2 stacks were over 60 meters away from each other. So how does two stacks 60 meters away = 20 looney bins.
So what you stood infront of was 12 bins in 1 location and 8 bins in another location.
Size of 12 looney bins and the size of 12 ASS scoops. If 8 scoops are the same size as 12 looneys, then its one way of comparing it. |
Mini-Scoops Rog, not standard full size ones! Big difference.
http://imageshack.us/">
http://imageshack.us/">
http://imageshack.us/">
These are my personal views: I look on this sort of situation as the amount of drivers being used, not the size of cabs. If you can't get a Lorry to move your kit, then so be it, use smaller cabs.
If 12 A.S.S cabs are going to sound better than 12 Looneys, I'd use the A.S.S cabs.
What I've realized over years worldwide is, depends on the type of music being played also decides on styles & types of cabs.
Rog, you mentioned elsewhere once that Super Scoopers used in stacks of 6's should be worries & sound loud & deep/low, so how do you reckon 2 stacks of 9 supers each totalling 18 would sound in the same area of where the 20 Loonies were used ?
Also, what about 3 stacks of 6 supers totalling the same 18 ? Which of the latter 2 or would both sound better than 20 Loonies or not ?
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Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 20 May 2007 at 12:05pm
Interesting ...Just need to find the right Mini scoop to build...Mr.Levi is working on it !
------------- Sticks n Stones
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Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 20 May 2007 at 12:43pm
I'd rather have 1 scoop than 20 looneys if its for early dub or reggae.
And I'd rather have 1 looney bin that 20 scoops if its for a techno party.
You just can't compare the two. Old reggae and dub does not need a system with much going on in the 80 to 140Hz range. In fact too much there and it sounds like the bass was played on a cardboard box. The mastering at the time put too much 80 to 140hz, so you need a system that does not have too much at those frequencys. Hence why scoops fit the mastering of the time. From what I gather from talking to cutting rooms in yard, the early stuff was mastered on scoops, so they would have added loads of 80 to 140Hz to perceive a flat response on playback.
When I set up the looneys for carnival, I had to take about 15dB at 100Hz to make them sound acceptable. The looneys really excel at 80 to 140Hz and its just what you don't want for reggae, but do want for a lot of modern dance music. I never designed the looney bin for dub or reggae, its a dance or live music workhorse, nothing else. The new super looney has a flatter response and plays quite a lot lower, and whilst still not designed for dub, sounds a whole lot better than the old version with older types or music.
Just to explain a bit about mastering. After the musicians have gone into a studio and layed down the tracks, the different audio tracks are mixed to form the record you hear. But after the mix has left the studio the 2 track master is sent to a mastering room. Its here they add compression and EQ to make the recording sound like what you expect a record to sound like. They also add and take things away so that the peice of music will 'fit' onto the record level wise. If the mastering room doesn't have flat monitoring then what you hear when you play it on you stereo will not sound right. If much of the early dub and reggae was EQ'ed on scoops then it will only sound right on scoops. Anything else will make the music sound like there is too much 80 to 140Hz, which is excatly what I hear when I listen to music from that time not played back on scoops.
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Posted By: TRE4U2NV
Date Posted: 20 May 2007 at 7:39pm
Hmm really agree and disagree with what your saying rog most studio,s ive been in all over the world most mastering was done on tannoy westministers but yes the were not flat a respones but i have never seen scoops in any mastering house in yard and trust me i have been in a few worldwide from some of the best studios for reggae sonic sounds/jammys king tubbys / easystreet / gussi p / fashion / hitrooms / rroots pool /mafia and fluxy /slyand robbies taxi / mad proffessor and never seen scoops in a mastering room large eq,d jbls and tannoys were the norm so yes mastering was always geared towards the final outcome they might have had scoops for final playback a-b comparison after the mastering has taken some of the much wanted low frequency have been edited out and hf
------------- IM SO SECRETIVE BUT I CANT TELL YOU WHY
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Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 1:26am
Trev,
I'm talking early to mid 70's here.
Yep, I've never seen scoops in a mastering room either. Tannoys, ATC is normal. But I was told that some early rooms used scoops in yard. Never seen it myself and if you haven't then must have been old wifes tells.
Still, for a place that loves the bass, why did all the roots recordings have so little bass. Maybe the cutting room did something. I know a few people who cut dub plates in the uk and one of them uses car subs and Hi Fi speakers to check the cut is ok.
Also, I'm not sure most yard recordings were mastered. Yeah, the big names on the big labels had the money, but even Marley's recorlds have no bass. I think most bands would mix in the sudio and to get the plate out quick would go straight to the cutting room and have the dub plate cut. If the cutting room had bad monitoring then could explane it. But something is not right with most of the records from back then. Stand up and be counted.
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Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 1:40pm
[QUOTE=Rog Mogale]
I'd rather have 1 scoop than 20 looneys if its for early dub or reggae.
And I'd rather have 1 looney bin that 20 scoops if its for a techno party.
You just can't compare the two. Old reggae and dub does not need a system with much going on in the 80 to 140Hz range.
what about the x1 comparing to scoops? it plays in the 30-70 range so it should be well fitted for reggae and dub...
but i cant see many x1 being used by reggae sounds...just scoops...is it just tradition and look or something else in the sound?
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Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 2:08pm
Does the X1 throw the sound like a Scoop does ????
------------- Sticks n Stones
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Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 2:17pm
CHAMPION wrote:
Does the X1 throw the sound like a Scoop does ???? |
for indoors use i dont think u need too much throw.
anyway if u go to the faq page about scoops
"If you walk away from a scoop bin the sound seems to disappear after about 35 feet"
i just ask, i saw scoops in action just a couple of times...
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Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 2:24pm
king david wrote:
CHAMPION wrote:
Does the X1 throw the sound like a Scoop does ???? |
for indoors use i dont think u need too much throw.
anyway if u go to the faq page about scoops
"If you walk away from a scoop bin the sound seems to disappear after about 35 feet"
i just ask, i saw scoops in action just a couple of times... |
You shouldnt belive everything you read ! Hearing is beliveing
Have you heard a ASS scoop ?
------------- Sticks n Stones
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Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 2:29pm
X1 does not have the smack a scoop can as there is no sound coming from the front of the driver. Also a scoop is a horn, and as such will always be quicker than a bandpass.
Depends how many you use. Most people use about 2 or 3 X1's in a stack, this will not give very much throw. But its like reflex too, start using 8 or 12 perside and it will travel for miles. I've heard lots of bandpass cabs (Nexo) and it was still really heavy 100 meters back, so they can throw well, but I don't think there are any systems using enough X1's to really get that kind of throw.
Must be just tradidtion that scoops get used so much. When we did the first speakerplans shootout Mal x brought 4 X1's along. Sh*t it was heavy. I looked about and saw many roots system operators jaws drop. Some came up to me afterwards and said that they thought it was unreal how heavy those boxes played. I think the X1's just worked well in that room and with the dub and reggae we played on them.
2 X1's are just a bit bigger than a normal scoop, but would have more output. But I'm not sure X1's have that way of pushing you about that scoops do. They kind of fill the place with bass, scoops are more in ya face and draw attention to themselfs a lot more. Maybe because bandpass designs are quite low distortion as the ports filter out out of band noise.
Would be good to have an X1 link up and a shootout against scoops. I've only ever heard a max of 4 X1's and it was doing it for me. I think 8 or 12 in a stack would need to be heard and could give a smilular size stack of scoops a good run for there money.
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Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 2:31pm
You shouldnt belive everything you read ! Hearing is beliveing
Have you heard a ASS scoop ?
no. just heard scoops a couple of times, inna italy, not ass scoops. and i used bandpass sometimes, but in very small clubs.
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Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 2:39pm
thanks a lot. very interesting infos
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Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 2:39pm
Rog
So how does that 21'' X1 sound compared to the 21'' super scooper ?
------------- Sticks n Stones
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Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 2:48pm
Don't know as I never played both side by side.
The 21" X1 is a double, if you have a listen to Cecil's green boxes at carnival you're know that his bass is all over that part of the site. You can hear the sub well before anything else and from a long way away.
You're just dying to build a 21" something sub aren't you. Not a lot I can say, I'm not sure its worth the extra expense or weight. Double 18" anything is a safer bet really.
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Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 4:32pm
CHAMPION wrote:
Rog
So how does that 21'' X1 sound compared to the 21'' super scooper ? |
Champ, just modelled 21" Super with 2150. Apparently looks like 30-60hz is pretty flat, and lots of it, without any tuning mods.
So why not go ahead and try out MDF/chipboard prototype Mini scoop version with height reduced by 12"?
------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".
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Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 5:28pm
Rog Mogale wrote:
Old reggae and dub does not need a system with much going on in the 80 to 140Hz range. In fact too much there and it sounds like the bass was played on a cardboard box. The mastering at the time put too much 80 to 140hz, so you need a system that does not have too much at those frequencys. |
Surely this is not really an issue for the vast majority of soundbwoys who would be running there scoops on sub, below 80Hz, anyway..
I'll also say that most of this discussion is also irrelevant to "modern" systems as the style of music being played has changed and now has more in common with electronic music..
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 5:57pm
levyte357 wrote:
Champ, just modelled 21" Super with 2150. Apparently looks like 30-60hz is pretty flat, and lots of it, without any tuning mods.
So why not go ahead and try out MDF/chipboard prototype Mini scoop version with height reduced by 12"? |
Champion, bring or send the driver down to Shortmans workshop, & you'll soon definately know how it sounds in one of his scoops. I want to hear the reults too, I'll even supply the wood if you bring it down.
Ain't it 2 of them you have ? You need to decide whether it's a scoop or bandpass you want to use.
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Posted By: TRE4U2NV
Date Posted: 22 May 2007 at 1:12am
rog
most dubs were done live
early jack ruby sonic sounds coxsone tubby were mixed as the band played it so you ended up with very iffy recording because the lack of proper recording equiptment most early stuff was from rca america which was basically cheap recording mediums unless you were part of the big four coxsone ,duke reid ,jack rubby,channel one[yard] who owned name branded equiptment others were custom made boards that copied the big brands as best they could thus the pre amp was born but with more channels bouncing tracks was the norm before it became a standard ,
because no one but the big four could afford soundcraft/bel /rca/revox/ most early recording have so many fatal floors in the recording that they had to stay in because tape was not cheap and bulk erasers were very expensive just sit back listen to old bob pete tosh burning spear jackie mittoo all live no second chances on low spec boards only after producer started to send to england and the states for the latest machine were any of the recording any good most matering was done on the fly
most early pre-ampswere custom blaukpoint grams inners
------------- IM SO SECRETIVE BUT I CANT TELL YOU WHY
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Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 22 May 2007 at 3:13pm
LOADSSS of scooooooops ....!!!!!
16 x ass scoop bass horn s118 loaded with 1 pd1850, full metal grill 35hz to 800 Hz, h 113mm w 673mm d 880 inc wheels £675.00 ono.
So how come all of a sudden ASS is everywhere in the forum !! Where the Void Acoustics gone ?
------------- Sticks n Stones
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Posted By: Jhodas
Date Posted: 07 June 2007 at 8:44am
TRE4U2NV wrote:
rog
most dubs were done live
early jack ruby sonic sounds coxsone tubby were mixed as the
band played it so you ended up with very iffy recording because the
lack of proper recording equiptment most early stuff was from rca
america which was basically cheap recording mediums unless you
were part of the big four coxsone ,duke reid ,jack rubby,channel
one[yard] who owned name branded equiptment others were custom made
boards that copied the big brands as best they could thus the pre amp
was born but with more channels bouncing tracks was the norm
before it became a standard ,
because no one but the big four could afford soundcraft/bel
/rca/revox/ most early recording have so many fatal floors in the
recording that they had to stay in because tape was not cheap and bulk
erasers were very expensive just sit back listen to old bob pete tosh
burning spear jackie mittoo all live no second chances on low spec
boards only after producer started to send to england and the states
for the latest machine were any of the recording any good most matering
was done on the fly
most early pre-ampswere custom blaukpoint grams inners |
Punctuate?!
I know what you mean though, the sounds that generation used to produce
with the basics is amazing. None of this Steinberg crap, all done in
live passes. Mindblowing stuff if you really think about it.
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Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 07 June 2007 at 11:51am
I think so too, like these bandpass cabs, as they sound very powerful.
Are these Short Mans ???
http://www.emacoustics.co.uk/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1 - http://www.emacoustics.co.uk/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
Type |
|
Medium format quasi-bandpass subwoofer |
Configuration |
2 x 15" (381mm) neodymium LF drive units |
Frequency range |
42Hz - 150Hz |
Power rating |
1000W RMS, 2000W programme |
Maximum SPL |
131dB continuous, 137dB peak |
Impedance |
4Ω (nominal) |
Weight (net) |
65kg |
Dimensions (HxWxD, mm) |
823 x 516 x 700 |
Construction |
CNC machined 18mm multi-laminate Finnish birch ply |
Finish |
Black semi-matt textured paint (colours optional) |
|
Type |
|
Compound Isobaric Subwoofer |
Configuration |
4 x 12" (305mm) LF driver |
Frequency range |
27Hz - 100Hz |
Phase response |
TBC |
Power rating |
1000W RMS |
Maximum SPL |
122dB continuous, 128dB peak |
Dispersion |
Omnidirectional |
Impedance |
2 ohms/2 x 4 ohms (switchable) |
Weight (net) |
83kg |
Dimensions (HxWxD, mm) |
420 x 823 x 700 |
Construction |
CNC machined 18mm multi-laminate Finnish birch ply |
Finish |
Black semi-matt textured paint (colours optional) | |
------------- Sticks n Stones
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Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 07 June 2007 at 12:07pm
I shoudn't speak for steve but in his absence I would say no. Have you seen the total range of product?
------------- http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 19 June 2007 at 11:41pm
Sunil wrote:
Lynx, how deep is the mini scoop. (as in size) |
Finally Sunil, Shortman's & Ultimate's Mini Scoops side by side. take your pick. Sure you'll be able to work which is which.
Don't worry about that battered looking box on the r.h.s.
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Posted By: RiddimKid
Date Posted: 20 June 2007 at 3:50am
I love the look of those mini scoops but which one performs the best loaded with V-1200 tek?..
Im interested in a few of shortman's designs
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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 20 June 2007 at 4:20am
Shortman! hoover your box's out man!!
can see saw dust
tek! get some gaffa and pull that dust cap back out
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 20 June 2007 at 1:09pm
mykey wrote:
Shortman! hoover your box's out man!! can see saw dust |
It wasn't there when we first started, & no drilling was done, so it must of been the sheer power of the V18-1200 which brought it down.
mykey wrote:
tek! get some gaffa and pull that dust cap back out |
Thanks for the tip/idea Mykey, as I was thinking of boring a small hole in it & use a folded pin to pull it out, like back in the days.
I don't think it will come out easily anyway as it happened when I first got them over 3 years ago
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 20 June 2007 at 1:57pm
RiddimKid wrote:
I love the look of those mini scoops but which one performs the best loaded with V-1200 tek?..
Im interested in a few of shortman's designs |
At the moment, I've only heard the V18-1200 in Shortman's Mini-scoop (the shorter of the two) which has sounded the best so far.
Best as in more force, brutal, more sub depth.
If you don't need/want to sound like that, the v18-1000 will be enough.
The taller of the two mini's is Ultimate Sound's which I've only tested with a V18-1000. As it also has a small chamber like the super scooper & RX18, it sounds very good, so I think I'm gonna leave that combination as it is.
Ain't tried it yet, but I don't think the v18-1200 is going to be a good match in Ultimate's small chambered mini, just like it didn't like the standard Rx18 with small chamber.
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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 20 June 2007 at 1:59pm
if it pull's hairs out ya legs it can pull a dust cap back out
stick a bit across side ways , grab each end and slowly pull it back off
works every time
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 20 June 2007 at 7:38pm
RiddimKid wrote:
I love the look of those mini scoops - Im interested in a few of shortman's designs |
It's been since a long time ago Shortman's been telling me, you just need 6 of these to sound good in most average venues, & to hear 3 of them in one stack, one on top the other on their sides is something else. With 3, you have the correct height too for your mid-tops. You can't loose.
I'd know I could bring 3 of these in the hall they keep the roots dances in Southall Community Centre & them sounds using super scoops would get a shock.
Even Jah Youth wouldn't believe it either.
I wonder if Fable Sound can sort out a little sound check one day/evening in Southall ? as it seems them are the resident sound in there.
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Posted By: RiddimKid
Date Posted: 20 June 2007 at 10:57pm
Im very interested just need to sort some bills lol
What midtop do you think could keep up with 3 of these badbois???
mt121 or double 12 box with bullets?
Nuff Respect
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Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 21 June 2007 at 12:05am
Tekasis wrote:
At the moment, I've only heard the V18-1200 in Shortman's Mini-scoop (the shorter of the two) which has sounded the best so far.
Best as in more force, brutal, more sub depth.
If you don't need/want to sound like that, the v18-1000 will be enough.
|
Don't forget Tek, at our shootout, the V18-1200 dropped deeper and sounded much more defined and clear, but the more sensitive 1850 sounded much louder, but no where near the quality, in the same mini scoop at same volume.
So I reckon it would take 1.2kw into a V18-1200 to properly slap an 1850 running @ 800W.
------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 21 June 2007 at 3:45pm
RiddimKid wrote:
What midtop do you think could keep up with 3 of these badbois???
mt121 or double 12 box with bullets? |
I personally have no idea. The pros need to advise you on that. A double 12 box with holes for bullets are much easier to make though.
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Posted By: Insomnia
Date Posted: 12 July 2007 at 4:06am
mykey wrote:
if it pull's hairs out ya legs it can pull a dust cap back out
stick a bit across side ways , grab each end and slowly pull it back off
works every time |
i suck it out with a hoover
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Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 12 July 2007 at 12:09pm
Insomnia wrote:
mykey wrote:
if it pull's hairs out ya legs it can pull a dust cap back out
stick a bit across side ways , grab each end and slowly pull it back off
works every time |
i suck it out with a hoover |
Do you have to use a "PD" hoover to sort out PD speakers, or will an
eminence hoover work on those as well?
------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".
|
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 12 July 2007 at 4:09pm
no! you'll have to wait 3 months for a PD hoover, if your lucky
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.
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Posted By: palesha
Date Posted: 20 August 2007 at 11:27am
Looking 4 plans 4 mini scoop & results compared to full scoop.
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Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 20 August 2007 at 1:44pm
palesha wrote:
Looking 4 plans 4 mini scoop & results compared to full scoop. |
Use the super scooper plans, build two then just cut a foot of the bottom of one of them - Sorted!
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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 20 August 2007 at 3:44pm
Posted By: palesha
Date Posted: 21 August 2007 at 7:02am
This means one cabinet will be one feet smaller. another will be of same super scooper size.
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