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Quick fix power distro?

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Teknotice View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 January 2017 at 10:03pm
Hi SP!

I think I already know the answer but I need to ask anyway.

Does anyone know if you can use data power distribution units (surge protected) for PA amplifiers? Example is below:


As a fill in until we get a proper distro. Looking to power a system of 7KW RMS

Cheers!


'why on earth do you need this much amplification?!'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2017 at 10:12pm
well if it was really 7000w that's 32amps.. maybe list what you're going to use? blue aran and studio spares do decent rack distros.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teknotice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2017 at 10:24am
Hi,

We'll be using:

1x matrix xp 1500
1x matrix xp 2400
1x matrix xp 5000
1x ultradrive

I checked out blue aran, I havent got £200 to spend on a distro at the moment. 

My only option at the moment is the ebay link above, I just want to know if I use it just for one night, could it blow or short circuit my amps etc? 

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2017 at 11:59am
it doesn't offer any advantage over a normal 4 way plugboard (other than tidiness and the rack mounting) so if it's temporary, just use a normal plugboard. however you do it, just use the fattest power cabled option available to you. 2.5mm is the best you can hope to fit in a good 13A (mk or duraplug) plug.

those amps should be fine on 13A.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2017 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

it doesn't offer any advantage over a normal 4 way plugboard (other than tidiness and the rack mounting) so if it's temporary, just use a normal plugboard. however you do it, just use the fattest power cabled option available to you. 2.5mm is the best you can hope to fit in a good 13A (mk or duraplug) plug.

those amps should be fine on 13A.

 
I'll get in before shaggers does!

2.5mm in a BS1363 13A plug is a technical PAT fail, 1.5mm is the max designed CSA for 13A plug. In some "nice" plugs, you can shoe horn in 3G2.5, but cord retention is normally compromised.

1.5mm H07RNF 3G1.5 is good for more than the 13A fuse.

I would want to split that load over two extension leads, to be on the safe side. Please also be aware that the maximum you can pull out of a double socket on the wall, is not 26A (2 x13A), but 20A. Much as the ring will probably be fused at 32A, all (plastic) DSSO are rated at 20A max, generally tested for 8 hours at 19.5A, and shouldn't exceed some temperature around 80c after 8 hours, IIRC.
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teknotice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2017 at 12:41pm
Thanks for your help guys!

Edited by Teknotice - 12 January 2017 at 12:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote imageoven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2017 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

I would want to split that load over two extension leads, to be on the safe side. Please also be aware that the maximum you can pull out of a double socket on the wall, is not 26A (2 x13A), but 20A. Much as the ring will probably be fused at 32A, all (plastic) DSSO are rated at 20A max, generally tested for 8 hours at 19.5A, and shouldn't exceed some temperature around 80c after 8 hours, IIRC.


This. Run a seperate extension for you big amp and plug that into it's own wall socket.

Theres not a way to be 'ok for just one night' unless it's always ok.

Check each socket in your venue before you plug in. Last venue we did had sockets with broken faceplates and back boxes, loose faceplates with just one bolt, reversed N &L, No earth, completely dead on one side of a double outlet....

not sure why they say this in their ebay ad but it would be enough to make me look elsewhere

Fits standard 19" Data Cabinets (Not designed for flight cases etc)




Edited by imageoven - 12 January 2017 at 4:02pm
Keep pushing on, things are gonna get better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote confused.com Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2017 at 4:24pm
That unit does look very cheap and nasty Chinese style. But if they can't even spell properly on the label then I would avoid it anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote njw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2017 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

[QUOTE=cravings]

2.5mm in a BS1363 13A plug is a technical PAT fail, 1.5mm is the max designed CSA for 13A plug. In some "nice" plugs, you can shoe horn in 3G2.5, but cord retention is normally compromised.


  

 All my big old C Audio's had 2.5mm cable and were fitted with 13A plugs and never failed a PAT test but I'll give three guesses as to who tests my gear.WinkLOL
  You quite rightly say though that you have to use the right plug (I've had no cord grip issues using duraplugs) and technically it shouldn't be done.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2017 at 10:51am
Originally posted by njw njw wrote:

Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

[QUOTE=cravings]

2.5mm in a BS1363 13A plug is a technical PAT fail, 1.5mm is the max designed CSA for 13A plug. In some "nice" plugs, you can shoe horn in 3G2.5, but cord retention is normally compromised.


  

 All my big old C Audio's had 2.5mm cable and were fitted with 13A plugs and never failed a PAT test but I'll give three guesses as to who tests my gear.WinkLOL
  You quite rightly say though that you have to use the right plug (I've had no cord grip issues using duraplugs) and technically it shouldn't be done.Smile
Yeah, TBH, I would be unlikely to fail it too! As long as the cord retention and lid of plug sits correctly, and all strands of copper are in the brass terminals correctly, meh.

If you were to make such an "abhorrent breach of regs", then ferules could well be your friend. Before I knew about BS7909 and its insistence on H07, I made up some 32A SPN+E 3G6 using type SY (the "screened" mains cable) as my supplier didn't have any H07, and did me a silly price on 25m of 3G6 type SY. However CEE plugs have slightly larger earth terminals than L/N, so with a bit of heat shrink and a ferule or three, was able to make off the "armour" with the green yellow core, and shoe horn it all in. Extra bit of CSA on an earth conductor is no bad thing, as it aids disconnect times a fraction. Even if it is steel rather than copper!

In a BS1363 13A plug, some argument that all the air space is taken up with copper, so less ability to radiate heat, but 2.5 will be cooler for same current draw. Again, meh.

It is to do with the specification of what a 13A plug is designed to do. BS4343 (IEC60whatever it is) also says max CSA into terminals of CEE/Commando plugs too. Think it is in BS7671 too? Shouldn't put 6mm in a 16A cee for example, even if your voltage drop calculations indicate you should, you need to use 32A CEE connectors.

Like I said, a technical fail, but I like the use of oversized copper. The clever will use the "correct size", and so save themselves money, but I would rather do it once, properly.

Goes back to the 32A SPN+E CEE using 3G4mm or 3G6mm "debate". If your supplier says its HO7 RNF 3G4 can do 32A, in a formal specification sheet, and your voltage drop and other calcs for total length Vs CSA Vs disconnect time, say you can, then you can. But in a hire environment, where every job is different, and end user may not be "skilled", 6mm is a much more safe bet. 6mm will be correct 99.9% of the time it is deployed, where as 4mm can only be used in certain deployments. In a hire bin, you don't to have to stock both!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shagnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2017 at 7:42am
PA Testing is in real terms a joke for gigs.

no extension leads over 30m, longs ones have to have a built in RCD, all hire equipment should be PA Tested after every hire???????

I real terms, I thought "temporary Wiring" addendum (BullShit 7909) cover "cee-form" CSA as 2.5/6/16/35mm only, the 16th/17th as a bit a caravan parks which  covers BS4343 outlets and has said the same for years.

The truth is no document can ever cover anything we do, I needed a 70m 32A feeder a while back, enter 10mm 5 core, but I could have hired the whole run as 20m 5g6 cable and most people wouldn't have a clue that it was an issue...

I am making up a hybrid Multicore, 100m 8 balanced lines and 6 bits of CAT6, I need a mains run, 4mm isn't going to cut it for a 16A feed, I could try putting IECs on the mains run (10A) but I am not feeling the 4mm will fit into an IEC, so I am making a "dodgy" leads with 16A and a 10A max load sticker on it, this break quite a lot regs, but as it is for use in a controlled system ( a Lighting desk, sound desk, PC and a couple of laptops will pull like 5 amps max) i see no issue, the cable will never be outside the voltage drop for the circuit so who cares, I understand this, I have the skills to say this is a safe design and in safe in scenario, but some tit might put a 3.5KW turbo oven at FOH and cause a problem, not a lot I can do there, but some tit and climb into teh roof with said 3.5KW oven and un-plug a Source 4 and pluf it into a 20A dimmer channel and burn up 60m or 18G1.5 soca cable, not a lot you can do (I wouldn't mess with anyone how can carry a turbo oven up a truss ladder) my point is if you really want to be safe the regs need to state "no un-qualified person should play with anything lumpier than a 13A plug."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Tengo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2017 at 11:17am
Playing the devil's advocate for a minute, what qualification should we hold? Plenty of good experienced lampies out there that aren't qualified sparks. Often with a lot more of a clue than the girls on stage left, and they play with the big red plugs too... Most C&G courses seem to be geared to either domestic or "industrial" (read: building maintenance)


Edit to add : Massively off topic, but i think the OP has already had a fairly comprehensive answer before it started veering off wildly....


Edited by James Tengo - 14 January 2017 at 11:19am
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