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Re-speakering Apogee AE5's. Would love sum advice

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ChrisJ View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 March 2007 at 8:09pm
Hi there everybody.
 
I read these forums from time to time and it's always interesting to see what people are up to and learn something new.
 
Over the weekend i aquired 8 x Apogee AE5's.  (good old ebay!)(http://www.apogeesound.com/pdfs/AE-5.pdf)
 
They're empty boxes with just the flares left.   Obviously they were originally bi-amped but i'm wanting to just use the boxes as normal 2 way mid/highs.  Nothing flash or overly expensive but i'd like something with a nice even frequency response that has a bit of poke. 
 
So far, i've come up with:
 
Eminence Delta 12LF (500watt)  (i thought about using the LF version incase i ever use them as a vocal PA).
Selenium D210TI 1" Compression Driver (80watts @ 2000Hz)
 
Am i on the right lines with those?
 
They'd be arrayed 4 per side on top of two 1x15" RCF LP15 loaded W bins (like the old fane's) two 1x15" Gauss 5840 loaded Martin Y bins and if the venue has no stairs, i have a pair 2x18" Court acoustic Black box 18".
 
I use 3 x 2400watt amps (1200 per side @ 4Ohm) for the bottom end.
 
Bit stuck for choice of a crossover.  Would i get away with a high pass filter?
 
Any help would be greatly appreciated as i'd hate to waste money and have it all sounding as good as an ebay Skytec cab.
 
Thanks very much indeed in advance.
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ceharden View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2007 at 8:33pm
Driver choice depends a lot on your budget.  I'm assuming from the fact that you chose an Eminence driver that you haven't got too much to spend.

If you've spent much time lurking you'll notice that P-Audio is a popular manufacturer on here.  The main reason being they do some quite useful but fairly inexpensive drivers and importantly, generally sound better than Eminence which is the other main budget manufacturer.

Anyway....  My suggestion would be the Challenger C12-300MB which is a bargin or if you want lightweight the SN12MB.  For the compression driver you could use the BM-D450 or again lightweight option SN-D44.

The Selenium you suggest would be fine I expect if you get a good deal on them but I wouldn't recommend the Delta15LF, it won't go high enough to meet the 1" compression driver cleanly.

If you have a bit more money to spend there are higher performance options from people like B&C.

Crossover wise you need a passive crossover at about 2.2kHz.

Assuming you're in the UK Pro Audio Parts or Bluearan sell the drivers and also have ranges of passive crossovers.  Not many of them are on the sites so you'll need to phone/email.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gramps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2007 at 9:05pm
Personally I'd go for something abit better than Eminence for the 12", but it depends what sort of budget you're on. Something from the likes of P-audio may be better at that end of the market.

Selenium products are in general very good quality, but I'm not familiar with that particular model so can't really give a valid opinion....

Crossover wise you'll need something active really, otherwise you could end up spending more money on passive x-overs which may well not sound as good as if you bought an active one and two seperate amps.

There's often people selling secondhand analogue stereo 3-way units on here from the likes of Behringer and DBX, or you can buy them new relatively cheaply.

If you used a simple HPF to protect the comp driver, relying on the 12"S natural roll-off, then it would be almost guaranteed to sound guff. You really want to protect the 12s from bass frequencies as well, which will increase both the loudness potential and sound quality of the system.
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ChrisJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2007 at 9:23pm
All this is sounding good so far, so please keep the suggestions coming.  And yes i am UK based.
 
I am running my system with an active crossover, but i dont want to run 3 way.  Just mid/high's and bass.  (Graphic has a sub out if if needs be)
 
 
I said that i had suggested an LF driver incase i planned on using just the tops on their own in a very small gig (i.e for a vocal pa).  If you guys think id be better off concentrating on making them a good mid/high cab rather than a bit of everything, then that's advice i'll take on board.
 
 
Thanks so far.  I'll look forward to reading more tomorrow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2007 at 9:54pm
The low extension is mainly going to be limited by the cabinet itself so there is little to be gained and quite a bit to be lost by using a heavy driver.  A good bass-mid driver will allow the cab to be useable to around 70-80Hz I expect which is easily low enough for vocal PA work.

A high efficiency and possibly lightweight (neodymium) driver is what you're looking for.

If you fancy building your own passive crossovers I can give you the design for the ones I use. They're fairly straightforward really, just needs a bit of soldering!

 
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ChrisJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 3:25pm

Yes please to the crossover designs. 

I'm hoping some more people will chip in here 'cause I'd like to have a good choice of stuff when i make the final decision.  So far we've got a Selenium HF Driver, and a P Audio C12-300MB.  Any advance on that?
 
I forgot to mention that i have a shed load of 22xt drivers.  Is Peavey a taboo word here or are there any fans?
 
Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 4:07pm
If you've got the 22XT drivers and they'll mount on the flares then it's worth at least trying them.  Not the nicest sounding compression driver out there though....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 7:44pm

Not to sure of the AE5's, but a lot of the Apogee cabs used used OEM EV speakers.

/john

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 8:54pm
Hi chris just something to think about, your average 2way crossover is between 25-60 to buy depending on the powerhandling required, most will have some sort of protection involved, but if you end up clipping your speakers it can easily take out your HF driver.

For 35 you can pick up a secondhand active crossover and for maybe another 60-100 an amp that will run your HFs. So thats not a lot more money really and passive crossovers can be a bit of a problem to fix on site at a gig if they go wrong.

You are also then protected against blowing your HFs through clipping, and you have a more clean sounding system

Don't forget that you usually lose at least half your power in your passive crossover (3dB), I haven't come across many that are more efficient than that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gramps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2007 at 11:04pm
I agree with Stu! You'll have more control over the sound and flexibility that way as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2007 at 5:23pm
Thanks very much so far everyone.  This is all really helping.  And in response to what Johnno said, apogee did use ev speakers.  I dont know which model for the AE5'S but i know that they were 300 watt.  The HF drivers were gauss 2081's.  Which i have 4 for sale in the selling bit of these forums.
 
Would everybody be in agreement that with these cabs and with all the bass end i have, i would be better off running the system 3 way?
 
In stead of trying to make the AE5's suitable for big and small systems, i should concentrate on making them a really good Mid/High box?
 
Cheers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smiffy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2009 at 3:24pm
Hi ChrisJ
Do you still have the Gauss 2081 compression drivers for sale bud ?
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