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abrupt View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abrupt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: scoops
    Posted: 21 June 2006 at 6:15am
if i had a pair of super scoops and a pair of normal scoops on my stack would i get phase problems because of the horn lenths or are they roughly the same
its all about infrabass
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minaximal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2006 at 6:24am
what dimensions are your "normal scoops"?

its never a good idea to mix different box designs and drivers, but if they are similar then the db gain may be more usefull or noticable than the sound quality.
Subs + Barges = :)

www.metaacoustics.com

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abrupt View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abrupt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2006 at 6:29am

i have super scoops at the moment and i thought rather than paying 400 for another pair [unloaded] i would by a pair of the fane design loaded for the same price

 

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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abrupt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2006 at 5:13pm
does anyone know anything about scoops
its all about infrabass
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jethrocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2006 at 5:51pm

 

 abrupt, this is pure opinion, there's every chance that the two designs would blend ok, but I'd go for more super scoopers everytime.

 Sure they cost more to build/buy, thats because there is more wood in them to make them a true horn rather than an approximation. I honestly don't think any other scoop sounds as good...

 200quid a bin sounds pretty good to me considering the amount of timber, and work involved.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UpComingSound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2006 at 11:19pm
Question about scoops whats a good 18inch woofer to use in them?  B&C EV Ciare RCF ? woofer and model please thank you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2006 at 11:30pm

Originally posted by abrupt abrupt wrote:

if i had a pair of super scoops and a pair of normal scoops on my stack would i get phase problems because of the horn lenths or are they roughly the same
its not the horns its the driver's

if you have the drivers perfectly place side by side ie: the coils are in line and the same distance from you then there wont be no probs

even if they are different sized drivers just make sure there coils are in line.

upcomingsound..... id go for VOLT as 1st choice. pd1850 for 2nd.

3rd would be the rcfp300/s800. 4th fane xb, although i would like to try the 18sound drivers have heard so many good things about them

apparently the czech guy who designs there stuff used to work for RCF



Edited by mykey - 21 June 2006 at 11:36pm
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abrupt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2006 at 5:23am

cheers for clearing that up im off to get some more now

its all about infrabass
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james folkes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote james folkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2006 at 5:42am
Originally posted by mykey mykey wrote:

its not the horns its the driver's


if you have the drivers perfectly place side by side ie: the coils are in line
and the same distance from you then there wont be no probs


surely that's only half the story... whilst the voice coil alignment may well be
important for time alignment of the direct radiating element of the system, a
scoop is a direct radiating/rear horn loaded enclosure and as such the
output from the cab consists of both elements. surely path length
differences in the horn length are likely to be far, far greater than the
differences in voice coil alignment which i suspect could be no more than
1-2" maximum, almost trivial numbers at the frequencies involved?

james.
mardy hippy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merlin gerwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2006 at 6:10am

I've always believed that as the null in response happens around 80 Hz to 140 Hz depending on the horn length, that all the output will come from the horn and not the direct radiating front of the woofer. If your scoop changes from direct radiating to horn at 90 Hz and you crossover at 80 Hz into the scoop, then the output will be from the horn not the front of the woofer, or most of it anyway.

I would think that its the horn lenght that would have to match if you use 2 diffirent scoop designs not how well the coils are in the same plane as its only the horn output your woried about. I would think that most scoop design horns are around 1.9 to 2.3 meters. So there could be a bit of cancalation, but I would not think it would be that bad.

The null in response always looks to be around 3 times higher than the flare rate. A 2.2 meter horn has a cutoff of 40 Hz and the null apears at about 120 Hz. Why is that.

Merlin G



Edited by merlin gerwin - 22 June 2006 at 6:11am

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gramps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2006 at 6:33am
No idea about Merlins query, but definately standing by James on this one. The output of the driver through the horn must be far greater than that of the direct radiating driver front, due to the efficiency gained travelling through the path of the horn. I am completely guestimating, but I would imagine that you'd probably get something in the region of 5-6db more output from the horn than the drivers front at any given power. Therefore alligning the horn sections, or ideally I guess, having identical horns/cabs, is going to make alot more difference than having the coils alligned. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abrupt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2006 at 7:34am

would hd15's on top of scoops be ok or would i need a digital crossover to put them in phase

its all about infrabass
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