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Suggested 1" Comp's for use 5khz-18khz

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djkeet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djkeet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2017 at 7:13pm
I've got the CD10'S but if I could afford them I would go for the Beyma cp380m still would need to sit above a good 2''

Edited by djkeet - 14 March 2017 at 7:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2017 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

How do you plan to couple the drivers? A wave guide, or just standard horns? What you use is just, if not more important than the drivers!


What would you suggest?

Tried twin 1" to 2" adaptor, was not impressed with results.
Was thinking 1x driver per horn, arrayed vertically.

Like the sound of BMS 4524, but not sure if that would provide sufficient SPL.

My top contenders where B&C DE25 or DE250, on B&C ME45 horns.

Was told Celestion 9040 1" horns, sound decent with many 1" drivers.



I did a lot of tests with a carpenter here who wanted to build a waveguide. Needless to say, it´s not simple.

Unless you have the patience - and resourses, I´d go with 2 x 90º x 40º horns arrayed vertically as you say.

Drivers - not sure. Beyma make some very nice drivers, as do BMS. A matter of budget and taste, really.







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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2017 at 7:37pm
Vertical arraying of 90x40 degree horns is just a bad compromise.
You need proper line array wgs. No other way around it.
Now i am not sure what your idea is here, and how you plan on using the rest of the components, but that will largely determine what you actually need. 
I dont find many line array boxes where hf drivers are cut so high. Even if they are 3 way the hf is the part that is the most crucial.
The box you have heard, the D&B V8 has two 2.5 inch vc hf drivers cut at around 1khz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2017 at 8:12pm
Are you going to be using an actual array? Like more than four boxes in a flown hang?

If not what you need is wide dispersion point source.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2017 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by djkeet djkeet wrote:

I've got the CD10'S but if I could afford them I would go for the Beyma cp380m still would need to sit above a good 2''


Do they still make 380m? Bloody lovely driver
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djkeet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2017 at 10:30pm
Yes Blue Aran and Thomanns still stock them and dia's as well
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2017 at 10:52pm

No matter how good of a compression driver you buy, it is the integration of the cone driver with the compression driver that offers the clarity of a line-array. That will be your biggest challenge for the majority of the cone drivers used in off the shelf designs are proprietary designed.    

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2017 at 12:57am
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:




<p ="Msonormal">No matter how good of a compression driver you buy, it is
the integration of the cone driver with the compression driver that offers the
clarity of a line-array. That will be your biggest challenge for the majority
of the cone drivers used in off the shelf designs are proprietary designed. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>

Best Regards, 


And have a lot of time put into the design of the phase plates and physical integration with the waveguide exit. Getting pattern control consistent without severe lobing throughout the vocal range is not so easy - and a lot of it also comes down to having a highly skilled crossover design, both passive and active. Out of band EQ and small bits of FIR are common in most modern boxes, as is dynamic EQ or filter adjustment too.

If you're not doing shows of over 1500 people, you don't need a line array.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2017 at 10:13am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

If you're not doing shows of over 1500 people, you don't need a line array.


This and previous technical statements, has brought things back to reality..

So I guess we're now discussing, recommended 1" drivers and horns, for stacking vertically in a cab, above 2", for 8khz up.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2017 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

If you're not doing shows of over 1500 people, you don't need a line array.
For so many reasons...

Put simply, to pay for a long enough hang to be put in place, to actually be effective (say 12 boxes per side minimum) requires enough tickets sales to pay for it, and enough height and space to hang that many boxes, as well as a big enough (wide enough) stage to put enough subs in to keep up!

Line arrays of 6 boxes, or less, a side, are not line arrays. They are simply six boxes (of narrow vertical dispersion) stacked on top of each other. At high frequencies you will get some coupling and cylindrical wavefront effect (i.e. breaks inverse square law, which is the whole point), but at mid frequencies, you don't get cylindrical wavefront, so volume drops off as a function of inverse square law.

So HF, 30m back from stack has reduced by 3dB per doubling of distance, whereas the MF and bass has reduced by 6dB per doubling of distance. (ignoring reverberant far field contributions)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wires Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2017 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

If you're not doing shows of over 1500 people, you don't need a line array.


This and previous technical statements, has brought things back to reality..

So I guess we're now discussing, recommended 1" drivers and horns, for stacking vertically in a cab, above 2", for 8khz up.




If you are confident in designing line array boxes, Have you thought about synergy horns and the like? Multiple drivers in a source that wouldn't require a massive line.
Still not an easy build.

Danely reggae system :)
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corell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2017 at 1:37pm
Synergy horns still have one single HF, so not much more than ~117-120 dB max until 10%THD 8kHz up...
Whats the reason not to use BMS 4505 other than its price?
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