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Suggested 1" Comp's for use 5khz-18khz

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MattStolton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2017 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

Just buy some JBL VRX - 3 x 1" drivers.  Smile



Ouch!

Last term I heard a VRX rig, it sounded a little "shrill" to say the very least! Wink


You seem to have mis spelled "complete and uttter dog shite" there Matt
As a SoundTech account holder, I was trying to be "diplomatic"!

But yes, proper nasty IMHO. Jumping on the line array band wagon, to cater for the mis-informed masses that think that two boxes can make a line array, but doing it ohh so badly. Bizarre as the accompanying subs (VRX918SP) do what they claim to do, and are quite competent for the price. But the VRX932LA (P) are "harsh". Please feel free to correct my spelling to your own preference.

Of all those fixed angle "array" boxes of that price point, the only ones I like are the QSC KLA. I can work with those quite happily, 2 on sticks, sitting on top of a KLA18, job done for many simple jobs.
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2017 at 4:23pm
Still a point source gig though eh?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2017 at 4:36pm
Too right!

I'm not so much into willy waving, that I can't freely admit, most of the crap I do is 1x12" on a stick conference work.

To me 400 peeps in front of a band stage is plenty enough! Couple of subs, couple of PS Mid tops each side, job done. Quick in, quick out, sounds enough, get paid, find beer tent. Simple?

And all in a 3.5T, so don't need O license head aches.

Much as I would love to justify willy waving and owning a 2x24 hang LA, with enough subs and truss to do it justice, not my bread and butter work.

Give me 800 bored council employees, listening to their masters orate about visions of the future, using just 6 x 1x12", 6 amp channels and LMS for delays, GLD112 for wank value, couple of mics on stalks on a lectern, and a racked box of radio mics. Build is less than 1.5 hrs, get out is 45-1hr, 2 blokes on full day rate, earns a simple and worry free existence. The head ache is sorting the powerpoints at the last minute, or half way through the presentation.

On jobs like that, I have off loaded, and in the pub for 9pm!

So, yes, long live point source.....
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2017 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

You need to stop looking at specification graphs, unless you plan on using the same horn measurements were made with.


There is much to gain, from using same horn, measurements made with..

There are few exceptions, like B&C ME60, which sounds immaculate with Beyma 2" drivers.

Horrible with the BMS coax. Simply worst horn for those drivers ever.
Marjan Milosevic
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I-shen Soundboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2017 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

...800 bored council employees, listening to their masters orate about visions of the future

So, a sound engineer's life isn't always one non stop high volume cocaine fuelled orgy of sex, drugs & rock'n'roll? I'm disappointed...

At least they get to hear it in the 'Stow Assembly Rooms, that must be a gorgeous venue to work in. Some of us get to peer over an eighth floor balcony and strain to hear anything from our lords and masters in an echoey atrium with a few speakers on sticks dotted on different floors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2017 at 10:15am
Originally posted by I-shen Soundboy I-shen Soundboy wrote:

'Stow Assembly Rooms, that must be a gorgeous venue to work in.
Acoustically, it is surprisingly challenging, and despite treatment, an RT60 of over 1 second. Basically the treatment wasn't thick enough, despite around 60% coverage!

You can hear the difference that drawing the window's curtains makes!

In terms of kit, back in the 70's it had some money sploshed on it, Strand 48A/B/C/D desk, and proper old skool dimmers, and a plethora of strand luminaires. Not wrong for a stage of its size, approx 11m wide by 7m deep.

Sadly, except for the occasional relamp, seemingly annually, all rather tired.

Electrically, you either have the dimmers powered, or via a decrepit changeover switch which requires a broom handle to fully engage the terminals, or 3Ph 125A in wings. There is a 1Ph 63A available for guest stuff. Found at the back of the room a 3Ph 63A, but wired in 10mm2 T&E, allegedly "clean". On big shows the incoming heads ooze melted plastic residue onto the floor in the electrical intake room.

The PA system is equally knackered, and features some old 4x10 columns, a Wilding Powersound 2x12 and 1x12 a side, and a celestion SR under balcony fill, with no time alignment. After 20 years the Wilding Powersound Amplifiers, hand built by us, ran out of spares, and were "upgraded" to 5 x Crown XLS1500. Mewh. 24 Ch LX7 on FOH, but only 16/4 tie lines to stage, with a mix of non working and noisey cores, and numerous inverted 2/3 mic lines. Even has the tip of a 1/4" jack plug stuck in its headphone out, rendering that awkward, but no money to pay for it to be serviced.

It does feature quite a nice IR loop system, which does give very good coverage, but never gets used.

In house screen is a 4:3 10x7.5ish fast fold, that has seen better days, and the surround kit, is a different colour to the main tabs. Looks piss poor, and the projector is old and 4:3.

Architecturally, beautiful, although the only real money spent in the last 10 years was a splosh of paint ahead of a visit by HRH QE2. Acoustically-manageable, technically-tired.

Typical council funded (meaning first to suffer budget cut) venue.


Edited by MattStolton - 17 March 2017 at 10:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I-shen Soundboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2017 at 1:52pm
Didn't know you did the PA, but I doubt Hawkwind used it when I saw them there last 😵

Do the council rent it out for a pittance to locals? I remember an all-dayer in Shoreditch town hall where the council's Sparky's​ overtime cost more than the venue hire. That's a council service I'd use.

It's one of the few London venues that doesn't have flats built all around, so they might escape the worst of the noise complaints.
With a decent PA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2017 at 2:04pm
So, can we get back to desirable 1" comps and their horn flares now !?


"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room!!".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I-shen Soundboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2017 at 2:41pm
Absolutely, and continuing Marjan's insight into bad horn pairings, I'm looking at a pile of ME45 90x40 horns and concerned how well they work with BMS 4550s, of which I have a similar pile. They both appear to be of similar chunkiness, and a test rig makes noises...

Any experiential insight into this pairing, or do I just suck it and see?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2017 at 3:37pm
The ME45 horizontal coverage goes from < 40° to 120° plus it will suffer from "pattern flip" badly, as it is much more wide than high...



Edited by corell - 17 March 2017 at 4:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2017 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by I-shen Soundboy I-shen Soundboy wrote:

Do the council rent it out for a pittance to locals?
8 Hours (i.e. get in, event, get out, all within 8 hours) is Mon-Thurs is £2450, Fri-Sun £4900.

Extra hours are M-Th £265, F-Su £550.

All are more if it is a Bank Holiday. And July-Aug (Peak wedding season), minimum 12hr bookings.

But the balcony is free if you book any of the above!!

And all plus corkage.....corkage attracts VAT.

And all plus "technical support".....If your unlucky that could be me!

Chingford AH has a relatively better PA system, sort of working lights, and is half the cost. However, noise limiter (and door contacts) that cuts power is present, as well as neighbours who do scream and shout. Unless you know where the unswitched power is....

But, yes, if your doing anything more than a speech to the assembled masses, bring your own rig.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I-shen Soundboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2017 at 4:12pm
Thanks for the opinion: I guess chunkiness is no indication of quality then. Should have gone with Mr Wilkes' recommendation for the 4550s.

Do the characteristics you describe apply to similarly dimensioned 90x40 exponential flares? I've suspected they're an engineering compromise towards a 2D audience plane and a divergence from the "ideal" shape.
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