The difference between an Inuke and a Powersoft |
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4AC
Young Croc Joined: 18 September 2010 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 521 |
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Posted: 08 September 2015 at 7:57am |
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I saw this discussion on the Powersoft facebook, and I found it interesting (or funny-) enough to share with you.
Mr. John: Please show me the $3,000 difference between your M50q, and the iNUKE NU4-6000 Behringer. Thank you Mr. John: Just as I thought. Save $3,000 and get an iNUKE. Powersoft: "Please show me the difference between a $50 steak and a McDonalds".... As the old slogan used to say - "Just Listen". Mr. John: That's a cop out. Have a qualified technician post were the $3,000 differences is!! Powersoft: Dear John, The M50Q and the iNUKE NU4-6000 are completely different products. The iNUKE is a cheaper product in every sense and so it is not easy to make a comparison without coming across as supercilious. Let us start from the more obvious points. 1. The power levels of the two amplifiers are completely different. NU 4-6000: 4 x 860W @ 4 OHMS M50Q: 4 x 1250W @ 4 OHMS 2. Origin: NU4-6000: Manufactured in China / 3 year warranty M50Q: Manufactured in Italy / 4-year warranty 3. Protection: NU4-6000: Thermal / DC protection M50Q: Thermal / DC / Clip limiter / Short Circuit / VHF protection 4. Size and weight: NU4-6000: 2 RU / 5.2kg M50Q: 1 RU / 7.3kg 5. Cooling: NU4-6000: Rear to front cooling (you sure that you have fresh air at the BACK of the amp?) M50Q: Front to rear cooling 6. Much better overall build quality. From the photos that you have attached, it is obvious that the level of engineering is significantly higher on the M50Q. 7. Connectors: NU4-6000: Combo inputs (break and block easily) / Chinese SpeakOn copies (patented design) M50Q: ALL Neutrik original connectors In more detail – we have put together a video showing some of the differences of a bench test. This can be found here: This is a comparison between the M30Q (which is the 2 channel version of the M50Q) and the iNUKE NU3000 (which is half of the NU4-6000). This is because we only have this amplifier available at present. • First photo, pure sinewave reproduction… please note added –unwanted - noise makes the iNUKE trace blurry. • Second photo, self-explanatory • Video #1, note the extreme dropouts and distortion generated by the iNUKE, I would not drive my own speakers with that signal. • Video #2: With a continuous signal the iNUKE dies after about 15 seconds, going in a “latched” state that requires power cycling (turning the amp off and then on again). There are many other features to take into account, however the info is not available on the iNUKE – such as efficiency, heat generation, maximum output voltage and current, damping factor, headroom etc. etc. Really, the best way to appreciate the difference would be to listen to them both at the same time. However at the end of the day, it depends what you need. If you just need something cheap to make some noise – maybe to go out at the weekend as a DJ or with a small band - you do not have high quality speakers and are not worried about sound quality (and maybe have a service centre at hand for reliability issues) – the iNUKE might do the job. If you want something that will improve the sound of your system, protect your speakers, be reliable and hard-wearing – well, these things cost more. One final point – where are you getting the $3000 difference? Our list price in the US is $3300 – and that is before any discount is applied. Thanks for taking the time to write – please let us know if you have any other questions. Powersoft team. Mr. John: Your m50q cost as you said $3,300. The iNUKE NU4-6000 coat $349. That's were the $3,000 difference is! I am NOT saying your m50q is not a Superior amp. What I am saying is, I can NOT find a $3,000 justification. One can purchase almost 10 NU4-6000's for the price of one m50q. Furthermore..., there are other Amplifier manufactures out there like QSC that cost more then the NU4-6000, but not as high as the m50q. And their design and components are more on par with yours. Now if the m50q sold for around $1,800 this I can see. Thank You VERY much for responding to my post. P.S. I have been trying to load your video but have not been able to as of yet. Powersoft: I saw that as well - and have updated the video link on the original post. I get what you're saying - and actually the M50Q is part of our more economical 'entry level' series. Powersoft is a premium brand at the highest level for both quality and innovation - dipping our toes into the 'Prosumer' or MI market is not in our game plan - and can be damaging for the brand at the high end of the market - fair to say that nearly all of the major pro-audio speaker brands are using Powersoft somewhere in their product portfolios. As mentioned on the previous post, if you want something to drive your system for relatively easy applications, I am sure that the iNUKE or similar will do a fine job. Powersoft is for when you want something professional (and not 'Prosumer') that sounds world-class, is reliable over time, keeps it's resale value and with a high-end feature set. The reliability thing is a worry however - look at the video LINK 0:51. The iNUKE cannot handle a continuous sine wave for more than 15 seconds. Now, you'll probably not have this during a show with a musical signal, but it can give problems during a show - and would need to be turned off and powered up to start running again. Maybe the steak / McDonalds synonym was not so correct - a better one would be a luxury car vs. a cheap run-around. Will they both get you where you're going? Sure they will! But there is travelling and travelling in style!! Thanks for your feedback! Powersoft: Also - $3300 is the 'street price' - but generally comes discounted from this price point. I am assuming that the iNUKE price that you're quoting is the net bottom line price (over here in Europe they don't go for less than $500 US)! Mr. John: Nice video. Conclusion: Although the M series of amplifiers are superior in both design, and components. The money differences are not justified when compared to a MUCH LOWER priced manufacture. If your going to make a Lower end product then it MUST be more inline with todays lower end products. (quote: Powersoft is for when you want something professional (and not 'Prosumer') that sounds world-class, is reliable over time, keeps it's resale value and with a high-end feature set. End of quote) I would suggest sticking to that 5% higher market. Not all of us are mixing for the likes of Adam Levine. But lets look at what is happening to our Industry. Behringer is buying up ALL the HIGH END Manufactures! Look at Tannoy, Lab Gruppen, Lake, TC Electronics, TC Helicon, Midas and TC Applied. I hope you are NOT going to be added to that list. Hope you enjoyed it, Teun |
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uǝɿɿɐʌǝ6ɯo sı ʇsʞǝʇ ǝzǝp
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Darkstar
Registered User Joined: 08 October 2014 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 326 |
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Unfortunately designing and producing anything in Italy is crazy expensive, although this does not justify the price difference for me.
Having the low-end products at such prices is forcing the mid-end buyers to buy either from other brands or chinese copies/behringer. Anyhow, RCF has now released their QPS9600 amplifier which is basically a copy of a LAB G. FP10000 and should cost less than 3000€. Specs would blast out the little M50Q: M50Q: 4 x 1250W @ 4 OHMS
QPS9600: 4 x 1300W @ 8 OHMS M50Q: Thermal / DC / Clip limiter / Short Circuit / VHF protection QPS9600: Thermal / DC / Clip Limiter / Short Circuit / VHF protection And that would be at pretty much the same price tag, I'd love seeing Powersoft trying to justify that. Origin, cooling and connectors would be the exact same whilst the only downside would be the weight, but as the RCF is almost twice as powerful it would be like having two M50Qs... at half the price. Edited by Darkstar - 08 September 2015 at 10:01am |
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Bass =/= Enough
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Marko
Registered User Joined: 28 January 2009 Location: Croatia Status: Offline Points: 274 |
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Origami heat sink... LOL
This RCF looks like SAE PQM 13 to me. So, if it is, it's not made in Italy. Regarding Powersoft vs. Behringer price difference... There are many factors that affect the final price of the product. Powersoft will sell maybe only a couple of thousand of these amps and Berry will probably sell a couple of tens of thousands... But Powersoft probably spent more on R&D than Berry... Custom charges and VAT increase the price of the more expensive product even more. 20% VAT on 300 is 60, and on 3000 is 600! The fact that is much better product with better components and simply better in any way I don't even need to mention. I don't know from where that guy take that 1800 USD from? Based on what? |
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all bass
Old Croc Joined: 11 October 2012 Location: the Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1855 |
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All Lab clones look alike. I believe the RCF is made by Sanway(in China ofc.)
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https://www.instagram.com/my_modular_journey/
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Tekasis
Old Croc Joined: 03 July 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6492 |
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interesting discussion
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**Heavy Weight-Line**
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Darkstar
Registered User Joined: 08 October 2014 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 326 |
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1) RCF's is not SAE's PQM13 as that would be Class I, QPS9600 is TD class instead. 2) RCF copies are not made by Sanway, one of the huge advantages RCF has on its national competitors is the ability of designing and producing every single component in its own factory. They probably don't produce elsewhere, nor they need to get the copies from other companies since Lab Gruppen's TD class patent has expired. Pretty sure Marjan would sort us out better on the last bit, but there's no convenience on importing partially faulty copies when you can just make them and improve them. Edited by Darkstar - 08 September 2015 at 1:58pm |
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Bass =/= Enough
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Mircea Bartic
Old Croc Joined: 18 February 2005 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 2581 |
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RCF QPS9600 is a chinese OEM Amplifier.
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general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research Ex Nexus_3 |
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Darkstar
Registered User Joined: 08 October 2014 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 326 |
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/disappointed
Edited by Darkstar - 08 September 2015 at 2:21pm |
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Bass =/= Enough
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bass*en*mass
Old Croc Joined: 03 September 2009 Location: "unknown" Status: Offline Points: 4009 |
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Its quite funny to see the same Amp output datasheets from so many different companies..
On the other side the OEM products must work pretty well since so many jump on the same wagon. Regarding Powersoft, well its one of the "D&B" of the Amp world :) - expensive, reliable, user friendly - very high resale factor, due to the above and a strict marketing strategy |
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studio45
Old Croc Joined: 16 October 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3860 |
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For my 2p worth, there's a local sound here that use an iNuke 6000 on bass, driving four Rhino scoops with PD1850 inside - they do all the things you're not supposed to do like pushing up the 20 and 31Hz EQ sliders, running without a limiter, ragging it into clip at least once every tune, accidentally running it up into a shorted cable now and then - and they've been (ab)using it for nearly 18 months now and it ain't broken yet! Hasn't even gone into protect mode as far as I know :) And, seems to go much louder than the Crest 8001 they were using previously.....
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Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA
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b grade
Young Croc Joined: 05 October 2012 Location: Portland OR USA Status: Offline Points: 1337 |
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Supply and demand. If people demand something enough, you can charge a lot more. If you make it almost unattainably priced, you will make it seem like the holy grail, and few can afford to find out it is still just a very nice amp. The cheapest amp will be tempting but if it can't do the job, you will need to replace it eventually, thus spending more.
The best value is usually in the middle in my experience. This does not mean that it will as good as the spendy stuff, but there is a diminishing return as you head into the pseudo hi-fi style pricing on decent PA kit.
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MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7809 |
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RCF is a lab copy. But not made by SAE or Sanway. However it is made in China.
BTW the lab patent has expired. So there are no more illegal copies around. They are all legitimate. Only infringement is the use of Labguppen on the chassis. Edited by MarjanM - 08 September 2015 at 3:53pm |
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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
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