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Tom Danley and Yorkville offer more...

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bassmish View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bassmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tom Danley and Yorkville offer more...
    Posted: 27 January 2008 at 7:47pm
maybe, the c'haracteristics of a deeper horn' are just refering to the way sound becomes more omni directional as the frequency decreases,  but using this slit and a lot of pressure created by the dimensions of the waveguide, the sound will perform as a 'deeper horn' and spread out a large amount more? Sounds quite wrong.
I guess that a non variable path length would just be like a straight tube, so maybe adding a few 90 degree corners creates lots of disturbance in the path taken by the wave and consequently creates a continuously varying path length. maybe this unstability in the path taken by the wave causes a higher pressure inside the wave guide, hence they said, 'such that the high frequency......'
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Post Options Post Options   Quote boab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2008 at 12:22pm
I think that the key may be in the statement...

"The Paraline element is a horn configuration that provides an effective impedance transformation while at the same time providing a way to adjust the path length in a continuously variable way, such that the high frequency dispersion pattern produced has the same characteristics as that of a much deeper horn."
http://vtcproaudio.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Quote H.. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2008 at 9:20am
Slot tweeter on a horn then!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bassmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2008 at 11:20pm
Hello,
I'm not entirely sure what the problem that was intended to be solved by this design was, which makes this a bit pointless, and I'm also not sure if this is what steve B was saying.
But.
I think what's happening from looking at the picture is that the sound is no longer sent through a horn to present an acoustic impedance, but rather sent around a symmetrical (about the horiziontal) object/waveguide. This waveguide will have dimensions so as to suite the frequencies being transmitted as steve said (smaller than the wavelength?), e.g to eliminate standing waves, not to decrease  HF response.
The sound passes around the symmetrical object, then is presented with a large acoustic impedance in the form of a 1'' slit/hole. It is forced out of this slit and spreads out, at which point the horns take over combining the two sources in a clever way.

Is this what you were saying/obvious?

Bassmish
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calitri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2008 at 6:08am
It's right under the HF drivers, the DCX50, it's a new design, I believe someone else put the link here also... Anyways, here's the link.

http://www.bcspeakers.com/index.php?sez=1&categoria=4&id_descrizione=46&prodotto=199&id_descrizione_prod=54
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moray james Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2008 at 5:28pm
Calitri: you said "What is interesting about the coaxial design is that B&C also is doing a version of their own" Do you have a link or url to this information? I took a fast look at B&C but did not see anything. Thanks.
 
moray james
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calitri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2008 at 6:10am
What is interesting about the coaxial design is that B&C also is doing a version of their own, so perhaps the idea is not as bad as I/you might think. Well, if you look at the B&C version's distortion, heh, now that's a high distortion figure!

Like I said in my previous post, I've only done measurements in practical situations, so there's always something else that might cause the feeling of a good sounding unit. Perhaps it's because in large format systems you need quite clinical drivers so that they have enough throw and the sound gets better with a little bit more distance to the speaker. This is just what I've experienced when doing concerts outside.

When I heard the F1 Res4 + F218 set in small inside space, they did sound a bit harsh but clean and crystal clear, just as the line array using the BMS top end. But go outside when there's more that 5m distance to the closest speaker and it really starts to sound good. So that's why I don't always look at the HD figures because they're close range measurements, not from a distance and they don't always tell the truth in real situations.

But like I said, that's just what I've experienced, so here's my 2 cents!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 8:27pm

Cheers for the reply Arthur, some interesting stuff. Quite curious about these drivers indeed, btw have you measured a DE250 against these on same horn at all? Would be interested in figures on that as I like the sound a lot.

The website figures (albeit on two completely different horns though) have the Beyma CP380M with 2nd HD about 45dB down from fundamental and the BMS graph shows the 4550 with 2nd HD about 32dB down.
 
Interestingly the coaxial 4594ND, 4595ND and 4592ND all have 2nd HD barely 22dB down from fundamental near the high end (6k up). Only thing I'd heard about those was comments claiming distortion was too bad to drive them down to their recommended 400-500hz but the distortion levels seem to get lower (around 40dB down) as far as 600hz.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ArthurG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 10:51am
Originally posted by gazman

Arthur you've mentioned distortion in BMS drivers before, is that based on measurements you've taken vs other similarly priced drivers (eg. B&C) or listening tests? I just find it hard to believe that Danley of all people would use a HF driver that let down the rest of the system, he uses BMS in the SH-50's as well...

FYI, I have a 50Hz 4PI anechoic chamber with calibrated Earthworks and Clio mics, Audio Precision ATS-2, Clio8 FW QC, EASE 4.2 with Aura module and Easera in my lab. I've made distortion measurement with more than 100 HF drivers from European & Chinese manufacturers during the last 2 years, so my claim is based on facts.

Now, I never said BMS is a bad brand. I only said that I'm surprised that many manufacturers use them despite the high distortion numbers. Personally, I don't like them, it's my taste but I can understand that others don't agree. But when you listen side by side BEYMA CP380M ad BMS 4550, it's hard for me to imagine that you can chose the BMS. The Beyma sounds so more natural, with lot of presence compare to the dry, analytical BMS and the Beyma still shows significantly lower distortion numbers...
To give you an example, with same horn (90x60 elliptical 210x210x120mm),  with 1W/1m, distortion at 2,5kHz (where the human hear is very sensitive):
H2 on BMS 4550: 3,98%
H3 on BMS 4550: 0,25%
H2 on Beyma CP380M: 0,63%
H3 on Beyma CP380M: 0,05%

with 10 and 30W the ratio is nearly the same...

--Arthur
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ArthurG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 10:29am
Originally posted by MarjanM

I cant imagine the crossover point to be higher than 1KHz. If you look at the spec for some of the 1inch BMS drivers they handle 80W from 800Hz up.

well it seems that you never had experienced a BMS 1" crossed at 800Hz as it sounds completely un-natural and harsh... Confused
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