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ultimate reflex for sub

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levyte357- View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2014 at 12:44am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Lev, that venue has to have a main fuse box where you can connect your power cable directly to the main rods bypassing any in house fuse and use your own power distro with fuses.
But that is how pro people do the stuff. You wouldn't know any of that.

Using only two 13Amp sockets is seriously limiting the real capability of your system.
That is 26 amps total. Meaning less then 6KW for the entire system.



Would have thought "pro" like you would know, 2x fused UK 13A plugs will easily allow 32A peaks to the system.LOL

In UK, in many venues you aren't allowed near fuse/junction box. You can use supply in main gig area, and that's that.

So if "you" turn up with your 16x 2kw subs, each loaded with 18" drivers of 1.5% reference efficiency, you may be disappointed, and definitely not booked again. LOL




Edited by levyte357- - 14 May 2014 at 1:03am
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geoSal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geoSal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2014 at 12:53am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by geoSal geoSal wrote:

"There are plenty of venues in UK, that hold 1k+ people, and only 13A mains plugs are available, unless people attempt to tail into "kitchen" supplies.''


Why???Ouch

What about lights??



Gig last year that used 4x of my Scoops.

Stone Love playing on Mitchigan Vibes set, 6x Scoops in Total.



Still approx 2.5k people still there at 05:00hrs+.



All off 2x 13A plugs, as no 3ph or 32A available.. LOL



It is avery good thing to be flexible with equipment and find smart solutions to issues like these but for me that has its limits.I've been to gigs which were not taking place in organized venues or clubs, but in parkings or schools.
When the client had demands for gear and the power wasn't enough his first reaction was ''ok we can reduce the amount of speakers-amps.''But the dj's had different opinion when people came.Red leds on mixers was their first reaction.
My rule is when power is not enough either demand a proper generator or cancel the job.For me it is not worth ending up with fried coils cause instead of 500 people 1000+ showed up and the system wasnt enough.

I wish i could here those 6 scoops in that room for 2.5k people though.Maybe I'm a little exaggerated..
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geoSal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geoSal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2014 at 12:58am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Lev, that venue has to have a main fuse box where you can connect your power cable directly to the main rods bypassing any in house fuse and use your own power distro with fuses.
But that is how pro people do the stuff. You wouldn't know any of that.

Using only two 13Amp sockets is seriously limiting the real capability of your system.
That is 26 amps total. Meaning less then 6KW for the entire system.


In UK, in many venues you aren't allowed near fuse/junction box. You can use supply in main gig area, and that's that.

So if "you" turn up with your 16x 2kw subs, each loaded with 18" drivers of 1.5% reference efficiency, you may be disappointed, and definitely not booked again. LOL






Youre not allowed to touch their junction box but their electrician guy can.There must be a guy like this right?Straight to their main 3phase fuse to your  3 phase distro and thats it.
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sn95 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sn95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2014 at 12:59am
Tony I can clearly understand the low extension of the BR over the scoop but at 100 Db 1w1m looks low compared to the graphs for scoops .BTW I have never seen one for the RX18 but I,m assuming it's about 105/106 Db ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2014 at 1:08am
Originally posted by geoSal geoSal wrote:


Youre not allowed to touch their junction box but their electrician guy can.There must be a guy like this right?Straight to their main 3phase fuse to your  3 phase distro and thats it.


Some gigs, there is 3ph available, and nice groups of 32A/63A 1ph Ceeforms.

And some gigs, all you have are 13A sockets, building owner/promoter won't provide or allow electrician to tail into fuse box.

This is why so many on this forum have Kelsey PD7/32s, and have input tails for either 13A plugs, or to 32A connectors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2014 at 1:11am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Lev, that venue has to have a main fuse box where you can connect your power cable directly to the main rods bypassing any in house fuse and use your own power distro with fuses.
But that is how pro people do the stuff. You wouldn't know any of that.

Using only two 13Amp sockets is seriously limiting the real capability of your system.
That is 26 amps total. Meaning less then 6KW for the entire system.


In UK, in many venues you aren't allowed near fuse/junction box. You can use supply in main gig area, and that's that.

So if "you" turn up with your 16x 2kw subs, each loaded with 18" drivers of 1.5% reference efficiency, you may be disappointed, and definitely not booked again. LOL



That is so wrong that i dont even know where to start explaining. The reference efficiency has nothing to do with how a driver will produce the low notes. 
I have noticed your insisting on the ref number earlier, and that only proves how little you actually know about loudspeaker boxes.

My 2KW subs are more like 7KW programe power (that is the power i recommend for them to get best results out of the box) with 101db sesitivity. f3 is 32Hz and f10 is 26hz. 
You forget that i also have a backloaded 21inch subs in my fleet that you can essentially call a scoop. The 218 box is pissing all over that box.
So dont speak about something that you have no experience with. Ok?
Once you are able to put your hand on my 1.5% ferr driver, you will forget anything else. It is something out of this world. 

Marjan Milosevic
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jammin75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2014 at 1:11am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by TmanG TmanG wrote:

What kind of music do you want to play? Scoops have a unique scoopy sound (colouration) to them when they're holding long bass notes which some people like.

If you can provide the power I'd go with a good double 18 over a scoop much more versatile as you can run them higher and can get away without having kicks... Just my two cents, everyone will have their own.


IMHO, No point comparing Scoops to reflex cabs, people have personal choices and preferences. Mates like to use reflex for live gigs, and Scoops for 400+ people Reggae gigs.



Thumbs Up  had no problems usin reflex now i am usin scoops have people complaining from the houses in front and behind the venue police have been on the phone to the landlord twice in the same nite all the tables get covered in dust from the high ceilings lost screws out of me laptop the list goes on ..... i will stick with my scoops  !!!  LOLLOLLOL
feel the vibes !!!   "Who Feels it Knows it"            Strong like Lion              
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TONY.A.S.S. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2014 at 1:12am
Yes, that's about right, but it's all about sound for some people and loudness for others. The title of this thread is Ultimate reflex for Sub. In some rooms 4 2x18 subs might be too much or uncontrollable so what would be the point of any more. Efficiency is important, but power is also cheap, which makes efficiency less important now than years ago. I was only stating a fact about a Reflex cab 2x18 going lower than a Scoop.
Don't forget, if there is a limit to how low a Scoop will naturally go, it won't matter how efficient the Scoop is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2014 at 1:14am
For places with no real power we provide generators. I can rent a 40KW generator for 40 eur per day plus the diesel fuel.
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2014 at 1:16am
Exactly Tony. A good reflex will have like 10db more at 35hz then any scoop. That is hell of a difference in the whole experience.

Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2014 at 1:25am
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

Yes, that's about right, but it's all about sound for some people and loudness for others. The title of this thread is Ultimate reflex for Sub. In some rooms 4 2x18 subs might be too much or uncontrollable so what would be the point of any more. Efficiency is important, but power is also cheap, which makes efficiency less important now than years ago. I was only stating a fact about a Reflex cab 2x18 going lower than a Scoop.
Don't forget, if there is a limit to how low a Scoop will naturally go, it won't matter how efficient the Scoop is.


Pretty much agree with all of that. However, obviously, when dealing with venues of limited power supply (just 32A ring main with 13A sockets), systems with piles of 2x18s are more susceptible to tripping mains breakers.

Scoops won't match 2x18 reflex for warmth and flat response downto 32hz, but small numbers of them, can fill large venues with huge amounts of 40hz, which is perfectly acceptable for many music types.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sn95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2014 at 1:25am
Maybe it's time for some 2x18,s
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