W bin?? |
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deepss
Registered User Joined: 15 April 2009 Location: Cornwall Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Posted: 22 June 2009 at 10:06pm |
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Hi,
Was just looking in an old Eminence design and constuction manual and came across the W bin. It says its a folded horn enclosure. I'm kinda stumped cos the folded horns plans Ive seen so far dont have ports in the rear chamber. I understand a reflex and a scoop have rear ports,but the driver is facing out,with no vent or horn mouth in front of it. Is it kinda like a Bandpass? but with a horn mouth? And are there any other designs that might be worth a look at to try to understand this a bit clearer?
Cheers
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Elliot Thompson
Old Croc Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5175 |
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It is designed to offer more extension to the bass. Years ago, I was given four W Bins free in which I vented the cabinets for it never went low enough for my taste.
It helped tremendously however I sold all four after having them sitting in the basement for 3 years collecting dust. Best Regards, |
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Elliot Thompson
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Jake_Fielder
Old Croc Joined: 08 October 2007 Status: Offline Points: 4231 |
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if you get a horn, and stick some holes in the rear chamber, you are losing a bit of efficiency but gaining a bit of low end extension (epending on what the rear chamber is tune to ibviously)
At tuning frequency the horn doesnt really do anything and the port creates all the noise, also cone excursion drops right down, possibly giving potential to eq up at this frequency ... (if you take that paragraph and replace the word "horn" with "cone" then it is true for standard reflex designs)
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Elliot Thompson
Old Croc Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5175 |
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If you tune the cabinet correctly, you will not lose any efficiency. Upon tuning the box, I used the panels where you would insert the driver. Using a combination of bass box pro an SPL meter in addition comparing a two versus two-box ratio, the tuned cabinets offered the same SPLs from 70 – 140 Hertz as, the sealed versions. However from 65 – 35 Hertz, the vented W Bins offered more SPL than the sealed version. Cone excursion is reduced (Which is not surprising) as well in the vented version. Many purists feel such a design is inferior however this is not 1970 where 70 Hertz is classed perfect for the type of music material offered today. Best Regards, |
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Elliot Thompson
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_djk_
Old Croc Joined: 23 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6002 |
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Klipsch LaScala with and without venting. About 7dB more output around 40hz~50hz, no loss of broadband efficiency. Edited by _djk_ - 23 June 2009 at 12:58pm |
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djk
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_djk_
Old Croc Joined: 23 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6002 |
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This 18" design is from DB Keele (ex Klipsch and EV guru), shortly after joining JBL.
This is basically a vented CV B48. Having heard both the vented and non-vented versions, the vented version destroys the non-vented version.
Best T/S parameters for this box would be roughly:
Fs=35hz
Qts=.3
Vas=350L
A steep filter below 32hz is recommended. Edited by _djk_ - 23 June 2009 at 1:18pm |
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djk
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Rog
New Member Rogers Archive Posts Joined: 23 March 2010 Status: Offline Points: 2166 |
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Those sims are looking good. Now show me the time domain response of the ported and non ported versions, as I can't believe it will be the same.
Its why a lot of people like the yammy NS 10 for studio monitoring. It has an impeccable phase response with none of the port lag asscociated with vented designs.
Porting a horn will add LF extension, no doubt about it. It will also lower excursion levels, but its the time domain that we are more sensitive too. The frequency response can be a long way off and it can still sound great to our ears.
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Timebomb
Old Croc Joined: 11 October 2004 Location: Lancaster Status: Offline Points: 2716 |
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Yeah we used to have a double version of that w eminence w bin, kinda
went "buuwwumb" rarther than "bump" not very tight and transparant,
made kicks all sound the same, it was quite fast in the upper bass as i
remember though, non ported version should make a good kick bin i recon.
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James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
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JaKe
Young Croc Joined: 14 September 2007 Location: N.E. Wales Status: Offline Points: 684 |
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I think people in the past have tried to tune them so that the port output matches the output from the horn and it ends up ringing like a bell.
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deepss
Registered User Joined: 15 April 2009 Location: Cornwall Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Hey Thanks Guys...Got heaps of stuff to go on there... I think I now understand bout the LF extension when the rear chamber is ported,and therefore has an effect on the excursion. So does that then mean,that a ported horn will reach lower frequencies but will not be as fast in its responce as a non-ported horn,like an 1850?
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Elliot Thompson
Old Croc Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5175 |
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You cannot achieve a fast response, as the frequencies get lower. There is always going to be a lag for that is the nature of frequency. Think of it as cycling. If a person is cycling 80 times per second he/she will be faster than someone cycling at 40 times per second. What the user must take in to the equation is the type of music material involved and where the dominant note lies. One would not expect an HD 15 to perform stellar on Dub Step as it would on Trance for the heart of the bass line on both styles of music are, octaves apart. The HD 15’s horn length is around the same meters as the Eminence W Bin. The PD 1850 offers a longer horn than the Eminence W Bin, which enables it to go lower. However there is a lag time as the frequency decreases. If one has only sealed W Bins and requires a lower frequency response than the horn can offer, porting the box is the only method to extend the response. Some users want things in which the music material cannot offer. When this occurs, many will use some form of bass processing (DBX 120x, Behringer Ultra-bass, Aphex Aural Exciter and/or Audio Control Richter Scale) to generate synthetic bass lines on tracks that were never designed to offer that type of bass line. Using the above processors will increase the time delay in which will destroy the mix. One must come to an understanding that some types of music material will not offer extended low frequencies despite what they claim. Spectrum & Waterfall Analysers tells you the truth where the heart of the bass line lies. Not, someone whose ears are not trained to detect the difference between two frequencies. Best Regards, |
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Elliot Thompson
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deepss
Registered User Joined: 15 April 2009 Location: Cornwall Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Ok... with ya ,but isnt that what I said...or are you just confirming that??
I'm sure I got what yer saying anyway,with ya on the style of music and the type of cab,have heard how the different styles sound on our own system...BUT what does interest me are those bass processors...
Gonna go and ave a look at the 'DBX 120x, Behringer Ultra-bass, Aphex Aural Exciter and/or Audio Control Richter Scale' ...
(Dont forget, I am a Cornishman with generations or carefully selected inbreeding behind me)
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