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what would you do next? Upgrades :) |
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BradRWills 
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 Topic: what would you do next? Upgrades :)Posted: 23 January 2012 at 6:47pm |
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So...my rig is little, consisting of Martin Audio ICT300 tops Martin Audio ICS300 sub units Yamaha P7000s on tops C-Mark 2350 on subs Martin M1 controller Behringer Crossover/Limiter It sounds quite nice in the small venues I use it for - whilst fundamentally flawed, those Martin ICT's do sound really nice, really clear and crisp. Anyway - whilst everything is OK - I wouldn't mind having a little extra oomph in the bottom end. I have the option to buy some additional ICT 300 tops - which would leave me with 2 sets per side (and I would also have a single one for a side fill or front fill in certain circumstances) - These could be worthwhile (especially given that the ICS 300 is designed to work with 2 X ICT300's each). But I was thinking maybe adding something for the lower end to take care of that deep bass drum kick noise might be worthwhile. I did get offered a Martin Audio WS2a which I thought might do the job. Any thoughts? (My main concern on that, was where on earth I could put it around the stage area!)
I'm not made of money, but I am happy to spend in the right circumstances - that said, I would suggest that most things modern Martin are going to be out of my reach for a little while. Interested in thoughts and ideas. What other options are there? |
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OneTwoThree
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Posted: 25 January 2012 at 9:04am |
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As a fellow user of a Martin ICT/ICS with 2xCrest CA6 I can only sing their praises for sound quality, using ICS/ICT 1 to 1 (not 2xICT to 1xICS) size for size, weight for weight and £ for £ it is probably the best sounding system I have heard for small venues. Although there probably aren't that many familiar with using this system on here, for a single gigging person this system makes a lot a sense as you can actually carry it around with relative ease and sounds sweet for general music playback. The tops aren't going to knock anyone over, even if you throw 'em!.....but are the easiest speaker to stick on a pole!...and the ICS with 40Hz-180Hz +/- 3db and 131dB peak and 29kg (I have owned other systems in the past, including EV T251's which I ran with both T18 (1x18) and MTL (2x18) subs, and an active Mackie system 2 x SRM450 (original) + 4 x SWA1501 all of which were good but not as impressive considering size as these Martin's). So to the question in hand, a second pair of ICT's is a sensible move and adding a WS2A, (stick it in the middle on the floor in front of the stage) will def begin to stir things up a little bass wise. Next move would be a second WS2A and then when it comes time to replace the 4x ICT's go for a pair of W3's!.......Then to pacify those on here, go for a minimum 8 (4/side) WSX and 4 (2/side) W8C....oh, and a 7.5 tonner! :-)....Who's shouting......NEXT......sorry NEXO??!! |
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BradRWills
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Posted: 26 January 2012 at 5:50pm |
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Thanks. That might be the route to go then :)
The thing I like about them, is mainly that they're pretty :)  |
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OneTwoThree
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Posted: 26 January 2012 at 7:33pm |
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Even better looking knowing you can carry one in each hand....and still walk with ease!
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mstep77
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Posted: 26 January 2012 at 7:50pm |
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If you need more bass you should get a better bass amp |
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BradRWills
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Posted: 26 January 2012 at 9:39pm |
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Given that the subs are reasonably sensitive, and can't take that amp to full whack without popping and spluttering, how useful is it going to be to change the amplifier? It's not going to help the speakers move more air, so to my mind it's not going to make them any louder or deeper?
If I'm wrong, perhaps suggest alternatives?
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OneTwoThree
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Posted: 27 January 2012 at 10:29am |
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As the ICS cabs are 4ohm and rated at 400wRMS I consider being run with the Yamaha 7000 is just about right bearing in mind these are also driven through a dedicated processor so power isn't being lost producing frequencies below what speakers can't handle, or the drivers distorting or being damaged by over excursion. I would say you are extracting the maximum bass available from the current set up, and the only way to do that is to run through a dedicated or programmable processor which you are doing. Changing the amp to one with a higher damping factor will give better control of the speaker cone from what I understand, and may define bass a little better but doubt it would produce more SPL. So it's more cabinets in this instance to move more air...the WS2A you were considering is one way to go... |
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OneTwoThree
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Posted: 27 January 2012 at 10:57am |
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....sorry you have the c-mark on the subs....I would try swapping the amps over....but def don't let either amp clip.... One way to set the amp if you are not aware, (although this is not 100% reliable it is better than nothing) is to set the system up as normal with your mixer/processor(s)/amps but disconnect the speaker leads. Send some program material through your mixer so the peak signal is illuminated, then adjust/attenuate your amplifiers so their peak signal coincide, you can always knock the amp down a little if you want a bit more security...this is then set for ever and a day unless you change any hardware in the chain.
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BradRWills
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Posted: 27 January 2012 at 7:09pm |
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To be fair, I run the Yamaha on the tops because I consider it to have better sound quality that the cheaper C-Mark one.
A fourth (and final) ICT300 has now been acquired, will be stripped as the others were and will be completely re-furbished. This will leave me with 2 to 1 ICT to ICS, which, whilst it won't necessarily produce THAT much more SPL, I think it will probably improve the spread of sound. I think you're right - I don't think that I'm going to get a whole heap more SPL out of the subs - they're not bad, I just love a band to really THUMP when it's being used for Bass Drum re-inforcement - hence being tempted by the WS2A. Maybe I'll see what that additional top brings to the party (apart from a 4 ohm load - and I'll be interested to see the difference between that and the 8 ohm load usually used) and then decide what to do next! Thanks for your thoughts. Brad |
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BradRWills
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Posted: 27 January 2012 at 7:10pm |
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P.S. If anyone has any idea how I should stack these speakers now, please let me know - I'm not entirely convinced that stacking 2 ICT300's on top of each other, on top of poles is going to be the best plan in the world!?!
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colint
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Posted: 27 January 2012 at 7:22pm |
Both Martin and Bose have done this without problems but I'd be inclined to put a strap around the cabs just to be safe (and make sure the stands will take the extra weight of course) I've done it with bose but they still sounded shite
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No matter what you put into your system if your speakers are shite it'll sound shite! Simple init?
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OneTwoThree
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Posted: 30 January 2012 at 11:13am |
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Adding a second pair of ICT should be quite noticable actually as your doubling the accoustic output +3dB, and vertical stacking would be the way to go, as dispersion shouldn't be an issue with twin cones mounted on an angled baffle, compared to horns, but throw would be an issue in a larger venue. As I mentioned initially I think these are great cabs for music playback (DJ) with 1 to 1 ICT/ICS....however using then for a band PA will push the ICT's to the limit I'm sure!...but also you may get away with a single bins as having the backline and drums in a small venue you may find them sufficient, as it's probably more vocal reinforcement you are needing?
Good luck with getting it all together......
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BradRWills wrote: