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X3 - Hybrid Horn
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andariel View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 May 2010 at 3:59pm
Hello,
 
maybe an interesting project. I got 15" drivers which were a special design for a horn loaded contstructions with very strong magnet system, a large Voice Coil and more than 1/2 inch linear excursion each direction.
 
I did the woodcutting while a friend did the calculations and measurements for my project. After 6 prototypes the fineal result.
Useable up to 200Hz, extreme hard kickbass and also very tight and deep. -6db point at 42Hz.
I prefer the crossover at 160-180Hz. 190Hz is a lambda/4 resonance which should be EQed -3db. Otherwise the system doesn`t need any equalizing.
 
X3 is the name because of 3000W amping power used for one cabinet. With 35Hz lowcut the driver is kept within its linear excursion. The sensitivity is measured with 2V, because 2 drivers parallel so with 1W.
 
Max. SPL calculated around 140db. Even 4000W are possible, but my amps are not capable of this and the benefit is the rise the lowcut to 40Hz... so I prefer deep bass ;)
 
 
 
 
 
And nearly forgotten through the hornloading it becomes more flatten in stacks of 4. Stack of 4 has a sensitivity of 107db flat to 45Hz. -6db at 38Hz.
 
Keep smiling,
Andi.


Edited by andariel - 05 May 2010 at 8:42pm
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space-face View Drop Down
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What drivers you using?
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looks really good, what drivers were you planning to put in them?
CELTIC SUBSONIC SOUND SYSTEMS
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andariel View Drop Down
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Points: 29 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andariel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2010 at 6:05pm
I wrote it above. I`ve used special OEM Horn drivers which aren`t really expensive luckily. I got it from the designer of this Hybrid.  Normally this speakers used for front loaded horns with extreme high compression. Because of this the strong magnet system and a totally stiff cone.
 
Bevor I`ve tested 18Sound 15LW1401. Very good speakers but not as good as the new ones. Now I get 1db more sensitivity, 1db more power handling and below 50Hz 3-4db more max. SPL becuase of excursion. I`d like to say it sounds like a few db, but it`s a difference as day and night.
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Points: 439 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote space-face Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2010 at 6:22pm
Why'd you go for no expansion at the start of the horn? also do the drivers load in with magnet facing the horn mouth?

sorry for loads of questions!
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jbl_man View Drop Down
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Originally posted by space-face space-face wrote:

Why'd you go for no expansion at the start of the horn?
 
I was going to ask the same question.
Be seeing you.
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andariel View Drop Down
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Because it told out to was the best efficiency over bandwith on a given volume. It`s not a typical horn. Also sensitivity is below a good horn. But is goes deep beginning with one cabinat extending when using more. And it`s extremley compact. Output/Truckspace ratio is enourmous.
 
As I remember the original design with that driver on a front loaded horn was flat from 45-200Hz and had an efficiency of 107db with 1x15". But it was a 500 Liter design. This has less than 250 Liter!
 
So for comparison on same volume:
One Horn (500l): 140db max. SPL                    (with 1500W amping)
2 x X3 hybrid (500l): 146db max. SPL               (with 6000W amping)
 
But with given amping of 6000W, you can supply 4 Horns => 150db! but 4 times bigger for transportation. For this I`m talking about max. Output/Truckspace size. And with this efficiency of the hybrid you can do a funeral for a lot of normal frontloaded horns. There are not too many designs delivering more around 100db sensivity at 50Hz in single mode operation. And most of them are limited in low frequency output due to excurision...
 
 
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Points: 7845 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2010 at 8:09pm
102db from two 15's is not that good in my book. 
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
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andariel View Drop Down
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@MarjanM, maybe you should compare more exactly or measure real subs by yourself. On datasheets you easily can find 102db for 2x15" but not in real world.
 
Compared to this size it`s very good. You must include that this are high excursion drivers with a lot of move mass. Beeing capable of 6db more LF output than a conventional driver.

One driver tested in Bassreflex with same corner frequency and roughly 125l has 94-95db. So there is a gain of 4db only by the enclosure. This it more than double power output!
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What are the external dimensions of this 6th order hybrid?
What driver would you recommend for this design, which everybody can buy?
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andariel View Drop Down
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I can see nothing to be meant 6th order in this construction.

Rough dimensions by head. 75x75x42cm
 
When using another driver you need a new enclosure. The LW1401 was close in construction, but not exactly the same. But it was the best driver I could find before! For a few drivers feel free to contact, I bought a lot to get em cheap. For all who planning more of them I can give you an TSP Set you have to achieve.
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Points: 7845 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2010 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by andariel andariel wrote:

@MarjanM, maybe you should compare more exactly or measure real subs by yourself. On datasheets you easily can find 102db for 2x15" but not in real world.
 
Compared to this size it`s very good. You must include that this are high excursion drivers with a lot of move mass. Beeing capable of 6db more LF output than a conventional driver.

One driver tested in Bassreflex with same corner frequency and roughly 125l has 94-95db. So there is a gain of 4db only by the enclosure. This it more than double power output!



So basically you have a box that have no exact plans, with the unknown driver and some graphs.
Great, that will help us a lot.
Can you explain to me how having a big excursion figures helps in increasing the output for 6db?
If you take any 99db driver and put two of them in a big enough box and tune it correctly you can have 102db with ease. And it can go a lot lower than 50Hz.
Can you explain the theory behind your box? How low do the port is tuning the box? Is it bandpass or just a reflex box? To me it is a simple clam shelf double 15 box with a big port.
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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