Speakerplans.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > General Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 12 line array cab plan
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

12 line array cab plan

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 12>
Author
Message
rayrainx View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 27 December 2016
Location: nigeria
Status: Offline
Points: 46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rayrainx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2019 at 8:32pm
the theory behind line arrays are very simple and straightforward to me..any one can actually make them..if the sample plan for the LA112 provided in the website is typical to a line array box and will work well with the recommended drivers and couple with the design for the wave guide, then.it means a great deal to me...some body must have ripped open a line array cab in the past and modelled it right?
Back to Top
efinque View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 09 November 2015
Status: Online
Points: 476
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote efinque Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2019 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by rayrainx rayrainx wrote:

some body must have ripped open a line array cab in the past and modelled it right?

I did that with a Labtec 2.1 speaker set.. I just took out the active parts and put them into a single enclosure to function as a monitor.

A large line array requires some means of flying it.. a small, 2-box system would work on a pole or on top of a stack. I've been looking at dB Tech DVA M2M but it's ~1,7k a side, and they'd need proper subs.. which in turn are 2-3k per box, one on each side so we're talking around 10k and a processor would be great but not a necessity since they have inbuilt DSP.

So far I've spent like 100e on my system in a year.. maybe a bit more if you count in the electronics like the mixer, crossover, amp (I only have one atm) etc.
Back to Top
Pasi View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 25 April 2010
Location: Knutsford
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2019 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by rayrainx rayrainx wrote:

the theory behind line arrays are very simple and straightforward to me..any one can actually make them..if the sample plan for the LA112 provided in the website is typical to a line array box and will work well with the recommended drivers and couple with the design for the wave guide, then.it means a great deal to me...some body must have ripped open a line array cab in the past and modelled it right?


It is not good, it will not work and it will sound shit. Stop thinking about it and find something what actually works.

I'm not going to spend my evening writing here what is wrong with it, so i'll just say it in shortest possible form: Everything.

Back to Top
Pasi View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 25 April 2010
Location: Knutsford
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2019 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by efinque efinque wrote:

Originally posted by rayrainx rayrainx wrote:

some body must have ripped open a line array cab in the past and modelled it right?

I did that with a Labtec 2.1 speaker set.. I just took out the active parts and put them into a single enclosure to function as a monitor.


What the these have to do with each others?
Back to Top
mini-mad View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 13 July 2012
Location: london
Status: Online
Points: 6799
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2019 at 10:02pm
3pages.... gotta be a forum best
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
Back to Top
rayrainx View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 27 December 2016
Location: nigeria
Status: Offline
Points: 46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rayrainx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2019 at 10:04pm
why will it sound shit? I believe if a single box will sound good..then it can be arrayed..with proper eq, DSP and delay settings including good sub's ..I think it can't be far from the real stuff
Back to Top
Pasi View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 25 April 2010
Location: Knutsford
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2019 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by rayrainx rayrainx wrote:

why will it sound shit? I believe if a single box will sound good..then it can be arrayed..with proper eq, DSP and delay settings including good sub's ..I think it can't be far from the real stuff


What you think and what happens in reality are 2 different things. If you look for a white paper by some small guy from L-acoustics who explains how line arrays work, you'll find out that this box hasn't got anything right.
Back to Top
BJtheDJ View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 28 November 2012
Location: Bristol
Status: Offline
Points: 406
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BJtheDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2019 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

Originally posted by BJtheDJ BJtheDJ wrote:

It appears that he has a constant need to be noticed and/or validate himself,


And how exactly is that different that what you and the others are doing? So what if the guy doesn't have a lot of experience, be an adult and just ignore his posts if it's that big a deal to you.


It's vastly different.  I and many others don't pontificate on matters about which we know nothing, and nor do we give out incorrect advice.

It's a big deal because some inexperienced newbie visiting here might use some of his ill-informed advice.

Generally I do ignore his posts (or laugh unbelievingly at things like his plastic mouldings) but in the last few days he has constantly posted innacuracies; viz. his notion (in the PKN H8 thread) that you can only use active boxes over short distance unless you have a very capable mixer.


Edited by BJtheDJ - 04 January 2019 at 10:22pm
Only users lose drugs
Back to Top
mini-mad View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 13 July 2012
Location: london
Status: Online
Points: 6799
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2019 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by rayrainx rayrainx wrote:

why will it sound shit? I believe if a single box will sound good..then it can be arrayed..with proper eq, DSP and delay settings including good sub's ..I think it can't be far from the real stuff
HF dispersion. There's one. There's one reason it won't work.
Rather then this barrage of f##king nonsense I thought maybe giving you one good reason it won't work would be a good start.

If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
Back to Top
snowflake View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 29 December 2004
Location: Bristol
Status: Offline
Points: 2069
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2019 at 10:49pm
you would probably be better off with a different system unless you are doing very large venues or outdoor events. if you really want a line array just buy a second hand one. if you had the experience to run a line array you would already know this though without having to ask this forum. I say this as someone who has never operated a line array - but I realise what I don't know. there are others on here with a lot more knowledge than me telling you the same.
Back to Top
toastyghost View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 09 January 2007
Location: Manchester
Status: Offline
Points: 9519
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2019 at 10:49pm
Originally posted by Pasi Pasi wrote:

Originally posted by rayrainx rayrainx wrote:

why will it sound shit? I believe if a single box will sound good..then it can be arrayed..with proper eq, DSP and delay settings including good sub's ..I think it can't be far from the real stuff


What you think and what happens in reality are 2 different things. If you look for a white paper by some small guy from L-acoustics who explains how line arrays work, you'll find out that this box hasn't got anything right.


rayrainx: both Pasi and I have said the same thing although he was a little nicer than me. This is a box built by someone who knows what a line array looks like, and not how it works. Likewise even for some commercial products to be honest.

Go read the FULL VDOSC manual and whitepapers. Run some mock simulations in their free software. Go work some shows for free as a box shifter and ask questions afterwards, politely, about the deployment. Then think about maybe building a few boxes for fun, to experiment. But don’t think you’re remotely close to the real thing by downloading some point source box plans with the HF horn made narrow on one axis and rotated by 90 degrees.
Back to Top
madboffin View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 03 July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes
Status: Offline
Points: 1233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madboffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2019 at 3:35pm
This thread reminds me of the heated internet discussions that were going on 20 years ago, when calling something a "line array" had become the new way for manufacturers to persuade unsuspecting customers to buy their speaker systems...

The term "line array" has no scientifically defined meaning and therefore it can mean whatever you, or a manufacturer, wants it to. A bunch of speakers laid out in a line.

On the other hand, the term "line source" does have a specific meaning, as defined in any good book on acoustics.

With considerable R&D effort, it is possible to make something that has many of the attributes of a Line Source over some (or even most) of its frequency range.

The most successful of these are the ones with full DSP control and amplification integrated into the speaker cabinets. MLA and Anya, for example, are line array systems with highly optimised alignment that gets them close to line source behaviour. They also have further facilities to divide the array into sections and break up the coverage pattern into more than one beam. The manufacturers of these are careful to avoid calling them "line arrays" but this is for reasons of market differentiation - they have taken the concept a lot further and are so much better than what the term usually implies.

Quote I believe if a single box will sound good..then it can be arrayed...

This is usually not correct. All through the 1980's, manufacturers and their marketing departments persuaded customers to buy "one box" systems on this basis. Some sounded lovely in isolation, but none of them worked properly when combined in large quantities. A typical large festival system only sounded good at the mixing desk, which of course is not where most of the audience are. But it is where the FOH engineer and management listen to the show from, and they are the ones who hire the sound company...

Due to the size and shape of the audience areas at most large-scale events (you need to consider these as if viewed by the loudspeakers) it is easier to mitigate the ill effects of combining multiple speakers by designing systems that work better when stacked vertically. Doing this also makes it easier to design systems that can be flown from a minimum number of suspension points, which drastically reduces the time and cost of installation and de-rig. So the old One Box systems gradually got replaced with vertically arrayable cabinets, which everyone called "line arrays", some of which worked better than others in terms of acoustic design.

If you want to design a tall thin column speaker that has some attributes of a line source, you need to design the whole column first, then break it up into modules that are easy to transport, handle, and connect together. Having done this properly, the individual box probably won't sound very good on its own...

As has been mentioned, the V-dosc was a complete concept - including full system design, training, and user certification. The user and training manuals were particularly good (by Paul Bauman, I think?), as was the training course, and contributed greatly to its success. It was the first modular line array system of its type and was very well designed for its time.


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.043 seconds.