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12" reflex as kick!

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thepastor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thepastor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 12" reflex as kick!
    Posted: 26 February 2013 at 3:43pm
At moment i'm running 3x es18 (pd 186 loaded) as kick on 4x eminence scoop (pd 1850 loaded).
But to save space on the van i am thinking to sobstitute the es18 with 4x 12" reflex with BMS 12n650 or PD 12SB30. Frequency range 90 - 180 hz.
Can be a good idea? Will be used in large venues from 50 to 800 people...
Thanks in advance!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2013 at 4:14pm
depends on your needs.

if you replace with the PD 12SB30 on a one to one basis, you would lose at least 4 dB just from the fact that the 12" are 1 dB less sensitive and can only take half the power. And you won't have the boost of the bandpass/horn loading of the es18, loosing a couple more dBs.... resulting in a max SPL loss of anything between 6 - 10 dB - but that's just my uneducated guess !

the radiating surface will be roughly half of that of the four 186s, so you would need to employ eight or nine 12" drivers to match cone surface area.....

you could build the reflex bins for smaller gigs, and keep the es18 for the big venues. On the other hand, why not use the es18 + tops for smaller venues......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2013 at 7:30pm
For it to be worth it they'd need to be playing up higher which they will do. I wouldn't bother unless you wanted to cross out of your kicks higher than 600Hz. Otherwise I'd go for 15" reflex or re-box the PD186 as reflex cabs.

Another option that would be very clean but you never see used would be sealed 15s with light cones. This would have negligible group delay and no phase artefacts at 90Hz with most sensible drivers so should be very easy to cross over to nicely. This would be my choice.
Don't test the champignon sound
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2013 at 12:32am
BMS 12n650?
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
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https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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thepastor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thepastor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2013 at 10:19am
Sorry, BMS 12N630 !
Was thinking something like this:
http://forum.speakerplans.com/q12-12-sub_topic28555.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rffrecords Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2013 at 4:28pm
Pretty tuff this one, pastor. At first I thought that you were joking.
What you ask cannot be done with BMS (or any other in fact) reflex loaded 12" woofer.

To get the SPL of 3 pd186 loaded es18 with only 4 12 inch woofers you need some woofer even more efficient than the BMS or PD ones (e.g.Eighteensound 12W750 at 97dB), loaded in a kickbass tuned bandpass enclosure.
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thepastor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thepastor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2013 at 4:49pm
Ok, was not a joke but now i have understand that is not a good idea Smile
Thanks to all for the really clear and comprehensive answers!
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Tony Wilkes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Wilkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2013 at 6:32pm
I would go with a suitable 15" in a reflex. Big straight horns would be nice but a bit impractical :)
The 12S330/12N630 would be totally inappropriate for this use.

Tony
www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2013 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by Tony Wilkes Tony Wilkes wrote:

I would go with a suitable 15" in a reflex. Big straight horns would be nice but a bit impractical :)
The 12S330/12N630 would be totally inappropriate for this use.

Tony


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ziontrainsound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2013 at 5:09pm
how about the cubo 12 loaded with the pd.12sb30 as a kick cab? extremely high sensitivity and high output. built 2 of em last year and they pack a serious punch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luton_soundman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2013 at 5:38pm
ik triple 12" cabs, used these, worked great, and can also be used on midrange duty. bass/kick wise for the price of 3 12" can get x2 good 15". nevertheless worked really well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luton_soundman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2013 at 5:40pm
we used fane sovereign 500w LF drivers, which at the time were under £50 each driver brand new from blue aran Big smile but since then speaker prices have gone up considerably Ouch
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