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15" Scoop like rectangular Tannoy G.R.F

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Zeno View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 February 2015 at 10:29pm
I am looking for an 15" scoop with the performance like the Tannoy G.R.F cornerhorn. There exists the rectangular G.R.F but I doubt that this one delivers the same response like the corner version. I had the corner G.R.F horns and even without standing in a corner the performance was quite impressive. Problem with the corner version, they are unpratical for PA applications. A scoop would have much better handling and transport. I would use them up to 400 Hz or better 500 Hz. This would give me the option to have an easy to install full hornloaded system for small venue with some adequate bass perfomance. At this time this system looks like you can see on the picture
ZH500115
The bass is a reflex enclousure with Beyma 15 G 400. Crossover for small venue is 400 Hz.
Thank you for some nice scoop suggestion!
Zeno

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Hemisphere View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2015 at 10:57pm
You do not want to use a scoop up to 400 let alone 500Hz (even 200 is higher than most people will run them)

Just because they can output that frequency band doesn't mean they'll sound good, and you'll have a big efficiency dip at that level. Reflex makes so much more sense. Even a small tapped horn might beat a scoop at 400Hz if efficiency is paramount but anything other than a reflex will struggle.

If you want to use horns you need a dedicated kick cabinet for 150-400 really, then you'll get the efficiency you want plus the benefit of another driver on the task will give the system more impact in general. 2x 15" reflex or 1x15" tapped horn + 12" straight kick horn would be a safe bet. Double reflex maybe preferable as you could split it and use one or two depending on application.


Edited by Hemisphere - 26 February 2015 at 11:02pm
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guitarplayerjoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guitarplayerjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2015 at 3:46pm
Like Hemisphere says, I'd consider a different design to a scoop if you plan to run them so high. Most people I know cross theirs over around 80Hz due to the phase problems from the delay of the horn... How about something like a folded horn?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2015 at 4:12pm
theres nothing wrong with running that high in a scoop! Fane designed the 15 inch scoop to play mid as well as bass, which is what their 12 inch scoop was also designed for. The factor you need to look at is which driver. most 'sub' drivers will not be good above 200hz. Tannoy designed their drivers (dual concentric) to be full range. but if you get a 15 that will happily go up as far as 500hz, you'll probably find it is not optimised for sub.
 
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Zeno View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2015 at 6:26pm
Thank you for the details!
Do you mean a frontloaded horn with folded horn?
Mhh, I also thougt about this.
F1 use a frontloaded horn up to 470Hz if I have seen this wright (RES4 I think) but just for the kick, not for sub.
Or EV, if my information is correct they offerd the old eleminator even as a fullrange version. The mf horn was the 8HD and cuttoff is 600Hz.
Maybe I open another thread and looking for a frontloaded horn which can provide some bass and plays up to 400 or 500 Hz.
But the G.R.F was not bad, at this time I had no equipment to messure the dip.
Zeno 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2015 at 4:17pm
Jensen Imperial maybe? Mate of mine ran those all the way up to meet hornloaded 8s at one point and it certainly didn't sound bad. Dunno what frequencies he was crossing at but it was much higher than any of the standard advice you'd get would have you believe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rich, ind.st Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2015 at 6:09pm
Was about to mention the imperials:)  played them upto 500, sounded fine. Have used them as ghetto monitors loaded with a pd1550 and piezo, not amazing but passable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flinnt45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2015 at 7:20pm
Hey Zeno
You probably already know this Tannoy claim identical electrical characteristics between the corner and rectangular cabinets, I have built this cab myself, its fine in standard form with a 50 watt Tannoy gold driver, but with a 500 watt PA driver-The EV,EVX 15 is installed in the cab now it will require substantial upgrade with regard to bracing as the rear panel vibrates like hell, bracing cured it, it still suffers from response dip like a scoop, a better cab would be the Jensen imperial which has good output up to 500HZ, it was designed this way,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2015 at 8:01pm
Here's my version of a modern dual concentric 15" horn, based on an updated GRF, but redesigned for the Beyma 15" dual concentric 15XA38Nd. Built for home use, a great full-range box.

 
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Zeno View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2015 at 10:32pm
Hello and thank you very much for this helpful details!
I didn`t know the imperails, they look very useful for my application!
In the G.R.F I first mounted the gold monitor, then the K3808 and after this I build a "big bore" version with a Beyma 18GT200, 18G480 and then the PD186. And yes, it was neccesary to stabilize them for the power of the 18" speakers.
G.R.F
Maarty, your cabinet looks fine! Would be also very good for my application or for my "triax" speaker (PAS 2580C with BMS Coax)
PAS BMS4590
Is it possible to see the plans?
Zeno
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Maarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2015 at 12:41am
Here's the plans. Feel free to build them. I'm keen to do an updated version at some point. I think I can improve them with a slightly larger volume horn... But they work well. I'm using the Beyma factory crossover designed for this driver.


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Maarty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2015 at 12:46am


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