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15" Scoop!

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Tom Umney View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Umney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2006 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe SmokeyJoe wrote:

I just thought it might be a bad thing because now all i want is 12 18" 1850 loaded scoops and everyone knows i can't afford that!

Hehehe thanks for that info Tekasis, i'm going to download a couple more of those tracks, and destroy (probably) my computer speakers sub! Just out of interest, what frequency are those deep bass notes in the Iration Steppas music? Surley its about 40Hz? 45? 30!?

I think im going to build a pair of WELL BRACED fane design Scoops. I would build the MicroScooper but i prefer the oldskool look the original scoops have. And with these round grilles on them they will look really aggressive! Perfect!

Thanks, SmokeyJoe.
 
Download,Iration Steppas 'Original Dub Dat' as I love that cd[ also got it on vinyl] more than the 'Dubz from de higher regionz' vinyl I got.
 
Anyway about the scoops. Its not all about look. I swear the Microscooper 15 will sound better going by what my m8s said. But I've never really liked the sound of 15 inch scoops.
18 inch scoops however, especially my m8s 2 18 inch ASS scoops loaded with PD1850 are well fun to listen to very loud plus it vibrates everything in his garage where he tried them out.And the bass beats your chest like a drum.
Basically my m8 has converted his garage and built on a music room onto it.And its moderately soundproofed in there so he can blast it loud night and day and is only whisper quiet outside.
 
I bought an odd 15 inch scoops from Mans1000 off here ages ago[I think a JBL design as the chamber was very shallow] and tested it a few times in my mum's lounge. Was too heavy and akward to get up my stairs even with 3 people lifting it as it was made of mdf.Plus it kept hitting the low ceiling by the stairs and almost fell at my m8.
I loaded it with an odd old Gauss 15 inch I had lying around before I blew it at a house party when I went a little mad with the bass.
 
So if your thinking of making scoops SmokeyJoe: make them out of 18mm birch ply. NOT mdf unless you want to f*ck your back.
And if your planning on storing them in your bedroom, a normal 15 inch scoop won't fit up normal stairs with low ceilings etc.Plus it still will be heavy. So build the microscooper15 unless you have a garage to store bigger scoops in and your parents don't mind you using it.
If you got a garage, make 18 inch super scooper 18's. If you ain't,make micro scooper 15's.
 
P.S: Even if you could afford 12 super scooper 18, PD1850 loaded scoops. You'd need a massive space to store them and a big van or one to hire.
 
Even 2 PD1850 loaded ASS design scoops would be fine as my m8 is well happy with his and sounds much better than the 4 Fane loaded 15 inch scoops he had before.
And you'd need the right amp to power them correctly.
He uses 2 Citronic PPX1600, bridged per scoop.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmokeyJoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2006 at 10:46pm
I will be storing them in my garage so size isnt a concern. They will be permanently set up in there as well.

Im just gonna build an oldskool Fane rig lol with all the bits and bobs i've got left over from the main project.

Lows is a pair of Fane scoops with Beta15's in (temporary). Mids is this fane design box loaded with Goodmans vintange 12" 60w audium guitar speakers (i think). And tops is a Fane design tweeter box full of piezos.

Should sound criss! It will be used to play UK Garage/2-Step and all of that stuff from vinyl. Really punchy bass kick drums (hope the beta15's dont fall apart).

I'll take pics of the build and finished system (oldskool and nuskool)

What frequency is the chest pounding kick drum that we all know and love? 60~80Hz?

Thanks, Joe.
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Tom Umney View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Umney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2006 at 7:47am
I swear the Beta 15's will blow if you crank it.They will sound crap anyway.
 
 
You might get lucky and win those cheap. Not my auction though.
 
Or Farmerwardy on here had Eminence Kilomax 18 inchers for 50 each that will work in the super scooper 18 plans. As Mykey said Kilomax work in scoops.
 
What you gonna be powering the lows, mids and highs with?
 
And also, do your parents mind you using their garage,lol.
 
LOL and guitar speakers will sound really sh*t for mids.
 
These are well cheap and would be better for mids, but not perfect: http://www.gbaudio.co.uk/used.htm#GB   under Miscellaneous section:
 
2 of brand new Eminence Beta 12 for 22.32 inc vat each.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmokeyJoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2006 at 8:17am
I really cant spend any on this project. I'm just using whatever i've got.

No it won sound too nice but if its loud thats all that matters! My mum dosn't mind me using the garage. Its got electricity in there and my decks are all set up with a pair of hifi mons atm. The plan is that if i build this little rig i can use my main amp rack to power it (TA2400, HILL DX1500, Rauch DVD-250s and Berry X-Over & EQ) and then in the Summer i can open up the garage door (big car door) and have parties on the field outside!

It will be great and my parents are ok with it! So i get DJ practise infront of a croud of my mates and get to enjoy some loud tunes whilst having a casual smoke or beer!

I will take pics of it all and post them on here when its done.

Thanks, Joe.
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Tekasis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tekasis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2006 at 8:26am
Originally posted by Tom Umney Tom Umney wrote:

 
Or Farmerwardy on here had Eminence Kilomax 18 inchers for 50 each that will work in the super scooper 18 plans. As Mykey said Kilomax work in scoops.
 
Eminence Kilomax 18'' in scoops ????? I keep hearing that's not such a good idea, & that a Reflex cab is better for them.
 
Originally posted by Tom Umney Tom Umney wrote:

LOL and guitar speakers will sound really sh*t for mids.
 
They won't sound that bad Toxic, especially if you're not playing at very high volume.
If you're just starting out I don't think guitar speakers would be that bad, then again I don't know for sure.
 
Sounds interesting & like fun already Smokey Joe, never give up mate.
 


Edited by Tekasis - 21 December 2006 at 9:34am
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Tom Umney View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Umney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2006 at 9:13am
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe SmokeyJoe wrote:

I really cant spend any on this project. I'm just using whatever i've got.

No it won sound too nice but if its loud thats all that matters! My mum dosn't mind me using the garage. Its got electricity in there and my decks are all set up with a pair of hifi mons atm. The plan is that if i build this little rig i can use my main amp rack to power it (TA2400, HILL DX1500, Rauch DVD-250s and Berry X-Over & EQ) and then in the Summer i can open up the garage door (big car door) and have parties on the field outside!

It will be great and my parents are ok with it! So i get DJ practise infront of a croud of my mates and get to enjoy some loud tunes whilst having a casual smoke or beer!

I will take pics of it all and post them on here when its done.

Thanks, Joe.
 
Ok, but what rating are your Eminence Beta 15's? old 150w rms or 350w rms new version?
 
The TA2400 which is 2x 600w rms into 8 ohms will fry the drivers if they are 150w rms each.
 
If the betas as 150w rms. Then use the Hill amp in mono, one channel for bass, 1 channel for mids, and then the Rauch amp for highs.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmokeyJoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2006 at 11:30am
Na the Beta15's are the 350w new model. I've given them 750w each before and it sounded better. That was using the Hill amp in bridge mono at 4 ohms.

The guitar speakers really aren't that bad. I would like to stress even more that... THIS SYSTEM IS FOR MY PERSONAL USE, AND NOT FOR WORK etc. So cutting corners left right and centre is excusable as noone else will be using the rig . The guitar speakers i've got are currently in a box my grandad built for me 4 (or so) years ago when i was young. This box is shown in the pics.



The woofer on the right with the shiny dustcap is a Goodmans Audium 12. Its rated at 60w (what it says on the back) and has a magnet the size of a planet! It weighs a ton! Its way bigger than the magnet on my Beta 15's!!
The woofer on the left is of the unknown variety lol. The magnet is a lot smaller and it says 50w on the back but thats it. The Piezos are CTS and the Piezo horn is a Maplins own brander .

So the two 12"s are going in the Fane "angled 2x12" box" and then im going to build the Fane tweeter box to go on top.

- Joe.

Edited by SmokeyJoe - 21 December 2006 at 11:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Umney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2006 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe SmokeyJoe wrote:

Na the Beta15's are the 350w new model. I've given them 750w each before and it sounded better. That was using the Hill amp in bridge mono at 4 ohms.

The guitar speakers really aren't that bad. I would like to stress even more that... THIS SYSTEM IS FOR MY PERSONAL USE, AND NOT FOR WORK etc. So cutting corners left right and centre is excusable as noone else will be using the rig . The guitar speakers i've got are currently in a box my grandad built for me 4 (or so) years ago when i was young. This box is shown in the pics.



The woofer on the right with the shiny dustcap is a Goodmans Audium 12. Its rated at 60w (what it says on the back) and has a magnet the size of a planet! It weighs a ton! Its way bigger than the magnet on my Beta 15's!!
The woofer on the left is of the unknown variety lol. The magnet is a lot smaller and it says 50w on the back but thats it. The Piezos are CTS and the Piezo horn is a Maplins own brander .

So the two 12"s are going in the Fane "angled 2x12" box" and then im going to build the Fane tweeter box to go on top.

- Joe.
 
A poor match for a mid box you will have there. 1 12 inch being 50w with a small magnet and 1 12 inch with a large magnet being 60w.LOL One driver might be louder than the other too. And they probably will sound different.
 
 
You only building the one mid box? Or a pair?
 
Cos if its a pair and you got 4 of the 12 inchers in total. I suggest you use the drivers with the large magnet in a flared mid horn. Eminence and Fane do that design.
And forget about using the ones with the small magnet rated 50w as most likely they will sound sh*t.Unless they are some vintage speaker like Celestion rocket 50, or simular ones.
 
Don't skimp on using mismatched drivers at least. Cos the end result is most likely to be crap distorted sound or crap uneven sound.
 
But hopefully they won't die from the bass. What crossover point you using anyway? 15 inch scoops can go up to 200hz normally before they sound awful. Around 150-160hz is a good crossover point for 15 inch scoops. But the 12 inch drivers might get torn to pieces at that frequency.Depending how much xmech they have. So better at 200hz from scoops to mids.And cross mids over at 4-5khz to piezos. Piezos crossed lower than 4khz sound awfully harsh and ear killing.
 
Your gonna need a low cut filter [or bring all the eq sliders to minimum] below 50hz is where the Fane 15 inch scoops roll off.Below that frequency the cones get unloaded and WILL get damaged.
 
Also since the Beta 15 only has a 2 inch voice coil, don't cain them or they will blow.And the xmech of 11.6mm xmech, 4mm xmax is pretty short too. So I suggest not to cain the bass at all.Or you might find them ripping apart.As a scoop can't be used with any driver like your trying to do,lol.
 
The Beta 15 from all the specs I seen, its a budget bass/mid driver for a very large reflex or sealed box.It's also a mud motor [meaning pathetic motor system and very low BL on it [magnet strength].Which means it will sound boomy and flabby the bass as the magnet has very little control over the cone.
 
So it will meet its maker soon in a scoop.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmokeyJoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2006 at 11:40am
Yeah, only one mid box currently. I have got 2 other Goodmans guitar speakers i aquired which also have huge magnets but one of them has a damaged cone. I'm told i could fix it using coffee filter paper and evostick though. Might give it a try!!

Ok scoops are gonna happen, i'll post pics of the build if i can aswell!

Thanks, Joe.
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Tom Umney View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Umney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2006 at 1:49pm
I can find you the plans of the 12 inch flared horns [an Eminence design] but a decent design for once as not all the Eminence design are good. But you can use 1 Goodmans driver in each.
And certainlly will sound better than a mismatched sealed mid box.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sirck50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2018 at 6:13pm
what was the outcome? You are 27 years old now.........
Hello!!!
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