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1850 Folded Horns together with Super Scoopers?

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OG Soundsystem View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 August 2019 at 11:13pm
Hi all

We have currently the following sound system setup:
- 2x Super Scooper (PD1850 Sub Horn 8 Ohm) amplifieded with a Crown XTi6002 (1200W RMS per Channel)
- 2x HD-15 (PD154 Kick Horn 8 Ohm) amplified with a Crown XTi6002 (1200W RMS per Channel)
- 2x MT-121 (12“ + 2“ Horn-loaded Mid High 8 Ohm) amplified with a Crown XTi4002 (650W RMS per Channel) and a Crown XTi1002 (275W RMS per Channel) correspondingly.

We would like to extend the sound system and for now use the existing amplifiers with parallel mode at 4 Ohm. We will certainly build another two HD-15's. Now we are considering to build two 1850 Folded Horns instead of two further Super Scoopers.
The main reasons for this plan are
- to have better and more diversified support for further music genres (such as Rap, House, Techno) besides Reggae, Dub and D&B.
- to further support part of the frequency range of the HD-15's.
We are aware that 4 speakers of the same type may be more optimal for some particular music genres, however since we would like to play various music genres we thought two Super Scoopers and two Folded Horns may add some more flexibility.

1. Is it reasonable to combine two Super Scoopers and two 1850 Folded Horns, each two of a type in parallel connected to a distinct channel of the Crown amplifier with distinct configurations (delays & crossovers) per channel?
2. Are there any experiences of running both type of speakers in a setup together with 4 HD-15's?

Many thanks for your inputs and cheers

Pedro


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Miles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Miles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2019 at 2:58pm
it will work somehow -  but it is not reasonable to have 2 different horns in the same passband especially for sub/bass. Blocks of 4 identical sub/Bass speaker will give u more output and u dont have to use 2 channels of dsp for the same passband and u can stack better etc etc.

+ I would not run 2 scoops / 1850 horns at 4ohm with 2x18inch speakers like pd 1850 = +-800w at 1 amp channel with 1200w. Will work but u dont have any headroom and the amp will get lots of stress....

+ seen ppl. use 1850 horns as upper bass for reggae/dub - so u could build 4 scoops and 2-4 1850 horns - then u have ur flexibility - for techno / rap / live just use the 1850 horns + mid/top and if u go for reggae / dub / dnb use the scoops and the 1850 horns....still recommend stronger amps for sub & bass
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2019 at 3:50pm
Replacing the 1850s in the Superscoops, with better suited drivers, would be good first step.

Mixing cabs in sub range, is for not for people, who are serious about sound.

Also replacing Crown XTI on Sub, is also a priority.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room!!".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2019 at 3:53pm
V18-1000 loaded 186 Horns, with 4x hd15s above, with decent sub amp, will play whatever genre, you need.

Even better than HD15s, would be ES18 kicks, loaded with pd186 mk1, or even Celestion 18 HDX or Fane 18XB1000


Edited by levyte357- - 18 August 2019 at 3:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OG Soundsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2019 at 7:59pm
Hi Miles

Many thanks for your input and your suggestions. We are basically looking for possibilities to extend the existing elements we already have and get more flexibility for other music genres without selling/replacing everything :-).

May I ask what you do see as main disadvantages of using two different horns for the same passband, except further dsp(configuration) and stacking/different sizes? Sorry, I forgot to mention that the Crown XTi6002 with 4 Ohm has 2100 W RMS per channel. Hence, with the PD1850 driver (800 W) the headroom is reduced from originally 1200-800=400 -> 50% to 2100-2*800=500 -> 31.25%. Would you consider this as generally too less headroom?

Do you mean we should build in total 4 Super Scoops, 4 Folded Horns 1850, 4 HD15 and 4Mid&Tops for the full flexibility, i.e. for Reggae/Dub 4xScoopers/4xHD 15/4xmid&tops and for Techno/House/Rap 4xSuperScooper/4xFoldedHorns/4xMid&Tops?

Many thanks and any further input is highly appreciated.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OG Soundsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2019 at 8:01pm
Hi levyte375

Many thanks for your input and your suggestions. We are basically looking for possibilities to extend the existing elements we already have and get more flexibility for other music genres without selling/replacing everything :-).

Which better suited driver would you suggest for the Superscoops, the V18-1000? As far as I see this is a 1000W driver, would it even be possible/feasible to run it with the Crown XTI 6002 with enough headroom?

Why should the Crown XTI be replaced on the Sub? And which amp would be better suited?

Many thanks and any further input is highly appreciated.

Assuming that we would build 2 two additional Super Scoopers (4 in total), could we then maybe combine 2 ES18 kicks with the existing 2 HD-15?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2019 at 10:11pm
Uniform system, with same subs, same kicks is easier to tune/power.

Unmodified, Superscoopers with V18-1000, sound better than with PD1850.

ES18s are much more effective than hd15s.

Sell your hd15s, and get ES18s, or just build 2x more hd15s, but don't mix.

XTI series are budget lightweights, spec'd at 1khz,  if budget is an issue sell the xti, and get Crown MA5000VZ, or buy pair of used Proline 3000 and bridge them, or get used "old" SAE PXM1450 I think it's called.




Edited by levyte357- - 20 August 2019 at 10:33pm
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