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2x MT122 + CW218
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Earplug View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Joined: 03 January 2012
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Points: 7072 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2022 at 9:26am
" It depends on how much you want to learn/explore."

I still use several cabs I built myself, albeit fairly simple 1 x 18" BR - and then designed some horn-loaded tops to go with those, that I had built by a carpenter here as my woodworking skills are near zero - but the system sounds great & gives me a good feeling whenever I use it.

BUT - the system did need analysing & alignment, for which you will need some reading & understanding of time and phase measurement, etc. Just throwing together a few cabs because they look good is not optimum.
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Young Croc
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Points: 1034 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2022 at 3:09pm
The 18sound,Beyma,RCF,B&C suggested designs are normally a good start which also include a designed crossover. However, even after that you will find that there is a need to properly process all equipment and it is substantially more expensive then some secondhand factory cabinets like the SX etc.
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Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rune RC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2022 at 10:57pm
Well, as I mentioned on the beginning I have build the 1850 horns, so I like challenges. At least to me that was a challenging built doing all the cuts yourself and assembling. 
I have 2 x 12" and 2 x 2" horn tweeters that could be used. BR could definitely be something to go with. I found some good plans at the manufacturers you suggested. I have also looked at MT130. Is that any good?

What crossovers would you use? One for the 2 way top and then one for connecting sub and top?

I will wait a bit with buying the parts. But thank you :)
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Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rune RC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2022 at 11:02pm
Makes sense.
Can you elaborate a bit when you say: understanding of phase and time measurement?
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Young Croc
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What do you mean with mt130?
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@smitske96: MT130 design
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I found the MT130 design quite nice, so just wanted to know if any of you had some experience with it? 
I am just asking if this is a correct assumption: 
For the 2-way top I will need a 2-way crossover? 
For the sub I will need a sub crossover? 
How do I connect this to a regular amp that has no input for a sub? 
Do I connect another crossover in between the amp and the speaker units that take cares of splitting the signal in two?
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Young Croc
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Points: 1034 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2022 at 10:25am
Originally posted by DMorison DMorison wrote:

@smitske96: MT130 design

Weird, it did not come up with my search.

@Rune
It would be best to go for a dsp, dcx2496 etc
You do all your crossovers,eq,delay, limiting with that.
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Points: 7411 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2022 at 10:28am
the speakers you're interested in (mt122 / mt130) are for big and loud applications. outdoors, big crowds. they're not really for small things like you want to do.

and they'll need proper processing, a loudspeaker management system, separate amp channels for the mid, and the high etc. passive crossovers like you're talking about aren't going to work for that level of speakers.

i would say look into a nice pair of coaxial 12" monitors that can be mounted on a pole, with a passive crossover maybe made by the manufacturer of the driver, or built to a spec they provide.

they'd be very useful versatile speakers to have, if you do in future end up progressing to a bigger system, then these would stand to you as a monitor system

and they're not necessarily a very simple build if you want a challenge. trying to fit everything in a small box with ports, ergonomic handles, passive crossovers, grill mounts, pole mount correct for center of gravity.. can be a very engaging project.
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Originally posted by Rune RC Rune RC wrote:

Makes sense.
Can you elaborate a bit when you say: understanding of phase and time measurement?

Not to be a smart ar*e but if no lights turn on with these terms i suggest taking the weekend off and start reading. In very, very, basic words: “phase” means which way a driver is moving (so two drivers out of phase will cancel parts of eachother) and time allignment is how a driver is placed against another so that soundwaves reach the ear at the same time. If both are perfect it will sound good, everything less will make it sound less perfect.


Edited by Bams - 24 September 2022 at 1:24pm
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Old Croc
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Originally posted by Bams Bams wrote:

Originally posted by Rune RC Rune RC wrote:

Makes sense.
Can you elaborate a bit when you say: understanding of phase and time measurement?

Not to be a smart ar*e but if no lights turn on with these terms i suggest taking the weekend off and start reading. In very, very, basic words: “phase” means which way a driver is moving (so two drivers out of phase will cancel parts of eachother) and time allignment is how a driver is placed against another so that soundwaves reach the ear at the same time. If both are perfect it will sound good, everything less will make it sound less perfect.



As above.

Complex cabs where the speakers are offset to each other needs some proper measurement & (digital) processing. A Behringer DCX2496 is about the minimum you would aim for.

So really, to start off, build something where all the cabs are simple & front loaded. You can at least (physically) line them up and make life easier for yourself. Or a (bass) cab where you can easily work out the delay needed. If both the bass & top cabs are complex, it will be difficult to make it optimum. There will be gaps & cancellations everywhere. A waste of time & effort.   Cry
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Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rune RC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2022 at 5:28pm
@Bams 
No offense taken. I get your concern. 
The reason for me writing in this forum is for me to cover the gaps. I am glad you highlighted it. 

If I go with a speaker plan and chose the suggested drivers, I guess that both phase and time alignment has been taken care of? 

It is sometimes hard to figure out what to search die when you don't know what you are missing. Can you point me to litterature or other posts that would help? 
I actually already have a digital crossover that could be put use. 
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