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2x10" vented horn idea

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Noud View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2018 at 8:09pm
I like a challengeSmile 
of course it's easier to build, cheaper, lighter and smaller. but...
i rather have 2 horn loaded cabinet i can use till many 400 people.

I've got 4x mogale super scoopers 18 and 1x 18" reflex cabine both fane 18xb loaded
For small gigs i use them in combinatie with my HK pro 12. bigger gigs 2 or 4 scoops with the horn tops.


The reason i start thinking about a different cabinet was. i was playing at a wedding there where about 150 people and the hk's we used where just not load enough. i could use them for a venue max 120.
but using 2 scoops with the horn loaded tops looks to  big for a wedding that's why i want something i can fly is not to big en more then load enough.Smile
  And i like to try to make something newBig smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bass*en*mass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2018 at 8:55pm
hmm, 210s with those faitals and suitable 1.4"s+horns will be louder, yet more balanced, than your hk tops.. you have 4x 18" reflex subs with 18xbs+4x scoops? if so you could possibly use the reflex subs on their own with 210 reflex tops on sticks for most stereo setups+mono sub scoops 2-4 if required?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2018 at 9:13pm
I’ve got 1 reflex 18xb and 4 scoops 18xb
But de 210s will only play to a venue of max 200?

Why not build a hornloaded cabinet that usefull till maybe 400?
I know they will be bigger and harder to build but i think useable for almost every gig. ( my gigs )
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2018 at 9:17am
tbh, that is a lot of wasted space, and too many angles. It's going to take ages to build.

The Peter Morris layout is pretty much perfect, simple and efficient. All the wasted space, complicated angles and redundant walls disappear, just by putting the baffle and horn throats to the back. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2018 at 9:37am
Yes that's true i still need to work on a better layout.  Peter did a perfect job! really good.Thumbs Up
If I've got some extra time i'm going to work with it.

One question about the Peter Morris speaker, is it a offset horn?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2018 at 10:06am
Slot loaded front loaded horn, with br port to achieve more low end
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2018 at 10:50am
Okay maybe a stupid question but in hornresp there's no difference ? Just simulate a front loaded horn?
It looks a lot like offsetSmile

I'm going to try getting the same cant of layout
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2018 at 11:25am
Im no expert by any means, but afaik offset horn would be a driver mounted directly into the side wall without front chamber, meaning that different parts of the transducer have differing offsets from the horns start. The peter Morris, and your plan both have a front chamber with slot loading into a folded horn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2018 at 12:45pm
A lot less CornersBig smile
This need a little tune up (low mid horn)
also the chamber is to big but that can be fixed.
Next time i will fit the horn and driver.

Not the final drawing yet.

Could this work? what do you guys think?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bass*en*mass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2018 at 4:55pm
noud:

-crossing scoops above 100hz straight to a top will likey sound weird due to phase issues of scoops above about 90hz.. ideally you would need a dedicated kick cab to fill the gap
-the 10" horns wont be useable much above 7-800hz, without proper phaseplug to reduce front chamber likely not even above 500hz.. so be prepared to buy suitable/expensive 1.4" HF and large horn to make them work+take care of the horn expansion, throat compression/front chamber
-your attempt/idea being much smaller than the PM cab will also lead to less horn loading below 250hz, leaving a wider gap between horn cutoff and optional reflex tuning, overall output 100-250 will be way less than using 12" drivers and larger horn
-the 10fh520 is not exactly a mid horn driver either hence the response wont be great/balanced but rather peaky (as already sort of visible in your sims)




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2018 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by Noud Noud wrote:

-How can i measure the dispersion?

Originally posted by Teunos Teunos wrote:


Low frequencies where the wavelength is much lower than the size of the horn in the measurement plane. In this area directivity is primarily controlled by horn size and efficiency/frequency response by expansion profile. Since your horn is wider than it is tall, it will be more directive down low in the horizontal plane than it will be in the vertical plane. This is contradictive to what you want if you for instance want a 60Hx40V horn. Below a certain frequency, the horn will become more directive in the plane with the bigger size, in this case the horizontal plane. This is a phenomenon commonly refered to as pattern flip.

For your case low frequencies = entire bandwidth.
If you place top horizontally it would have reverse dispersion. Thats why P Morrisons top is higher than wider.
For your bandwidth you could bend this horn as you like.
Ill be carefull with the simulation here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2018 at 6:55pm
I Premairly want to use the speaker horizontal so the dispersion should be fine is i understand it correctly. the sub could became a new project.
but first try to make the best of the faitals.
I would like to buy the bms 4593he for this cabinet with the rcg hf950.
so í'm aware it will be expensive.

hornresp now shows me it will work till about 600hz so the horn should work?

I'm now professionel but i want to try making this work.
I'm aware it's not easy en there needs to be compromises

Looks like i'm missing the point why this design will not work

Edited by Noud - 11 January 2018 at 7:00pm
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