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3 way speaker configurations - Pro's & con's
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JOEDL1509 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 February 2022 at 10:05am

Good morning,

If this is not the correct topic page, please can the admin move accordingly. Also, please forgive me, if this is a stupid or far fetched idea

I currently have a pair of RCF708 active bass bins, a pair of THAM12 bins (which I built) and a pair of HK Audio Premium Pro 10's mid tops.

I have never used everything together and I am finally having my very own private function at home....so was thinking, if not, why not  

As the THAM's & HK's are passive, I have an amp rack with the Berry DCX2493 DSP unit.... so I was thinking if I can connect:
the RCF's to be the subs
the THAM's as mid bass
the HK's....well as the mid tops.

Settings on the DCX, I thought/ planned on running:
RCF's - 43Hz to 80 Hz
Thams - 80Hz to 500Hz
HK's - 500Hz to 18kHz

Setting it up, I can do it.....but before I go out and haul out all the equipment out for nothing, I have two (2) questions:
1) Is this doable
2) What are the pro's & con's of this type of setup

Music played, will be top 40, R&B, Bhangra & a little EDM 
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Lucasdude View Drop Down
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Good morning! What size is the room? Are you planning on 2 stacks ie stereo, or just 1? Which amps do you have to drive the passive speakers?
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JOEDL1509 View Drop Down
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Points: 28 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JOEDL1509 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2022 at 11:47am
Hi Lucasdude,
We are having a small wedding reception with about 50 guests.
Weather permitting, it will be outside. If adverse weather, reception will be in our entertainment room & there I will just use my full RCF active setup (2 x tops & 2 x bins)
Planned on single stacking the 2 RCF's & the THAM's on top of them. With the HK's, I was thinking of flying them about 2m above the bins stack, with them laying side by side (tweeters towards each...so to speak)
 
Amps (this is used as a normal passive setup)
Peavey IP5000 for the THAM's (THAM's are loaded with Faital Pro 1210's)
Berry EPX4000 for the HK's
 
 
 
 
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Lucasdude View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Well, first I would say that the Tham 12 will be a bit unpredictable if you cross over higher than 200hz so if your going to use them I would suggest 80-180hz.
  If you just have a single stack there will be no need to run in stereo, so you could just have the 2 Thams on one channel and the 2 HK on the other channel of the Peavey amp. The sub should always be summed to mono anyway.
  TBH, I prefer quality and simplicity over "shock and awe", so If it was me using what you have I would first try not using the Thams. Instead I would opt for a stereo setup, putting the 2 subs together, HK 10s on stands, don't use the Berry LMS, just run the signal into the subs, set the high pass to 80hz, Peavey amp on top to drive the HKs. You could try the HPF@110 if you feel the HKs are stressing at high volumes, but the subs might be a bit boomy.
  Just my 10 cents. Have a great time!
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JOEDL1509 View Drop Down
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Points: 28 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JOEDL1509 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2022 at 12:26pm
Thanks Lucasdude for your 10 cents coz it's worth millions to me...LOL
 
yeah, generally at any given function, I normally use the setup style as you suggested. Just the 2 RCF's bins & RCF ART12 tops, crossed as you advised.
 
Just that it's "my" own function, couple of my DJ buddies will be there as well and I have some time to kill & mess around with all the equipment I have in my arsenal. Just thought lets have WOW effect.
As mobile DJ's, we always do our best for our clients and just wanted to do something different for the MRS.
 
But, if it's going to be a lot of effort for minimal output, will rather stay the course & use what works
 
thanks a lot man for the advise & well wishes. really appreciate it
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smitske96 View Drop Down
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@Lucasdude 

Why not use the Behringer DSP when you advise some crossovers in the same post?


@JOEDL1509
I get you want to try some stuff out, but unless you have experience with measurement setups and the corresponding setup, I am afraid the eventual result will probably fall short od you expectations. The Tham is not suitable that high up, and getting the RCF and Tham work together you again need a measurement setup with the knowledge.


PS: If you want more low end, try corner loading those RCF's if its possible.



Edited by smitske96 - 23 February 2022 at 2:11pm
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Lucasdude View Drop Down
Young Croc
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[QUOTE=smitske96]@Lucasdude 

Why not use the Behringer DSP when you advise some crossovers in the same post?

I'm not sure what you mean. If you're talking about the OP using the Thams, I don't see how it can be done without using his crossover. If you mean why I'm not suggesting he use it with just the subs and the HK tops, it's because the subs have high pass filters in them already, because it's an unnecessary complication, and also I don't think it sounds particularly good!
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smitske96 View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Originally posted by Lucasdude Lucasdude wrote:

Well, first I would say that the Tham 12 will be a bit unpredictable if you cross over higher than 200hz so if your going to use them I would suggest 80-180hz.
  If you just have a single stack there will be no need to run in stereo, so you could just have the 2 Thams on one channel and the 2 HK on the other channel of the Peavey amp. The sub should always be summed to mono anyway.
  TBH, I prefer quality and simplicity over "shock and awe", so If it was me using what you have I would first try not using the Thams. Instead I would opt for a stereo setup, putting the 2 subs together, HK 10s on stands, don't use the Berry LMS, just run the signal into the subs, set the high pass to 80hz, Peavey amp on top to drive the HKs. You could try the HPF@110 if you feel the HKs are stressing at high volumes, but the subs might be a bit boomy.
  Just my 10 cents. Have a great time!

How do you set the HPF than if using the HK's? I doubt the HK's are good enough to hear the impact of the DCX on sound. 
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Lucasdude View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Points: 827 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucasdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2022 at 2:53pm
The subs have selectable 80/110hz HPF on the loop out. Most HK passive speakers I've used sound pretty good. It's a shame he doesn't have a Class AB amp to use with them instead of the Peavey though.


Edited by Lucasdude - 23 February 2022 at 2:55pm
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knet94 View Drop Down
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Points: 1510 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote knet94 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2022 at 3:18pm
Yes it's very doable with the same reservation as Lucasdude about playing the Thams so high up. I would have thought that the HKs would be capable of playing down a lot lower than 500 to meet the Thams so also agree with 180 as a good cut off point between the Thams and the HKs.

Imo the added quality of going 3 way more than outweighs the very slight increase in complexity.
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Originally posted by knet94 knet94 wrote:

Yes it's very doable with the same reservation as Lucasdude about playing the Thams so high up. I would have thought that the HKs would be capable of playing down a lot lower than 500 to meet the Thams so also agree with 180 as a good cut off point between the Thams and the HKs.

Imo the added quality of going 3 way more than outweighs the very slight increase in complexity.


Why would a 3-way setup mean more quality? The HK's are perfectly capable playing down low enough to meet the RCF's. And I doubt that the Tham sounds good up that high.


@Lucasdude 
With that build in output from the RCF you have no choice regarding possible delay or slopes. You are stuck with the build in one. 
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Tham 12s sound crap above about 110-120hz.
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