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4 corner/point outdoors?

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jack.bergquist23 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 January 2023 at 5:33am
Hi team, 

I'm supporting the sound for an outdoor event in a few weeks for a "burning man" esq event. Our camp focuses on on fire spinning and will have a spinning "area" in a circle with a 15m diameter. 

Due to some budget issues restricting the size of generator we can use, I'm somewhat restricted in terms of deployment to 4 tops (3 way) with a 45 degree horizontal dispersion, and 2 x 18" subs. We also have a very restrictive noise reg limit of 49 decibels (A weighted average over 5 minutes) at the property boundary (although that is quite far from our camp). 

I was wondering whether rather than building a stack / deploy by the DJ facing forwards, whether creating a virtual square around the spinning circle and deploying in each corner could be a viable alternative? Am thinking this could help reduce SPL requirements vs a front stacked set up while ensuring there is reasonable coverage for the performing artists. in terms of audience, this is typically fairly small at any given time and usually distributed pretty close to the boundary rope of the circle. 

Totally appreciate that as you move towards the centre you'll get increasing summation and destruction. However, there are usually multiple performers so they will typically be spread across the space. 

Key questions in summary:

1) Could this provide a viable alternative to a "standard" set up while reducing overall SPL requirements to cover the space
2) If 1 is valid...any advice on the sub placement front given it will be a free space environment 
3) Any tips on set up, especially trying to figure out the optimum delay settings, would you work in quadrants each a fixed distance from the closest speaker (but before you get into the core overlap zone) - for reference I have enough channels on my management units to custom delay each top and subs. 
4) mono or reversed / mirrored stereo for the tops? 

Thanks in advance for any help / advice! :-)

Cheers

Jack 

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Racks&Stacks View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Racks&Stacks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2023 at 1:20pm
Just how far away is this property line?
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kipman725 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipman725 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2023 at 3:23pm
isn't 49dB above ambient noise in many locations?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote njw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2023 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by kipman725 kipman725 wrote:

isn't 49dB above ambient noise in many locations?

 ^^This, you may as well not bother with any speakers and ask the crowd to keep the noise down. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2023 at 8:28pm
personally i wouldn't bother, but i can understand why you'd want to give it a go.

as others i have mentioned 49db isn't a realistic reading, so this level is either given by someone that doesn't want you to succeed, or has no idea about noise levels. i hope it's the latter.

1) Could this provide a viable alternative to a "standard" set up while reducing overall SPL requirements to cover the space

yeah, it could, but i would probably just point the speakers away from the boundary?

2) If 1 is valid...any advice on the sub placement front given it will be a free space environment

mono block always wins :)

i'm not in a position to comment, it's too advanced for my smooth brain, but i believe a cardioid set up of the subwoofers would aid with your issues as it makes the bass somewhat directional. i don't know enough about it to help though, you'd probably need a person who knows what they're doing as it's a reasonably exact science (and of course, you'd need another sub or two)

3) Any tips on set up, especially trying to figure out the optimum delay settings, would you work in quadrants each a fixed distance from the closest speaker (but before you get into the core overlap zone) - for reference I have enough channels on my management units to custom delay each top and subs.

it's almost pointless imo, you're going to get all kinds of delay and comb stuff going on, better to just get them sweet to where most people are going to be in the normal way you go about it.

4) mono or reversed / mirrored stereo for the tops?

there's a good thread from opus jodie about stereo, i think it's called "beyond stereo" - some interesting nuggets in there.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Racks&Stacks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2023 at 1:51pm
49dB is absolutely a realistic number. In Germany, the limit in residential areas is even 40dB at the receiving property line. Bizarrely, some promoters manage to either get temporary exceptions or find ways to comply.

The op can do directional bass with just 2 boxes and corresponding amp and dsp channels, but the tops and monitors might still be too loud, even if facing away from the nearest potential complainer.
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jack.bergquist23 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jack.bergquist23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2023 at 7:55am
Sorry for the slow replies here!
The property line is pretty far away, I've been at events on this site before with 15 sound camps all running and playing loud enough that you can have a good time within 10m of the stage...event cap is only 2250 in total so you never really have a massive crowd at any single location 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jack.bergquist23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2023 at 8:04am
Thanks for the detailed reply.
The property is a huuggeee farm (100 plus acres) and this is the average reading over 5 minutes. Tbh there's just one neighbour who always gets antsy to the east of the property, I believe the other neighbours are much more accommodating. 
I suppose in terms of the layout I suggested I was aiming to create a more immersive 'bubble' of sound within the boundaries of our camp vs playing loud enough from one point that the whole 20m square will get sufficient coverage. As there are lots of other sound camps (maybe 15-20) you also start to hear artifacts from other camps too as you move further from the source so again was thinking this set up could help combat that. 
I suppose it's a tie up between having great clarity at the front but then it being pretty poor at the back, vs having a more consistent volume across the space but accepting some loss of clarity due to interference from opposing speakers and potential some weird delay issues. That said the number of events I've been to in NZ with atrocious sound that people were still frothing over I'm not sure I have the most discerning listening base to contend with 😂. Though on a personal level I'm still really keen to put on the best show possible. 
Perhaps it's just a case of spending some time trialling both options (I've got a full day for set up) and seeing what works best. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2023 at 9:28am
Try the 4 corner setup with single subs centred on two of the 4 sides.  Get the tops as high as possible pointing down towards centre of circle.  

Edited by 4D - 11 January 2023 at 9:28am
DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"
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