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4 reflex 12 + 1.4 vs 2 MT121

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sarsen1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sarsen1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 4 reflex 12 + 1.4 vs 2 MT121
    Posted: 25 August 2022 at 11:48am
Looking at my mid top options...

Current set up is:



2 TBX loaded super scoops
2 BMS 15s330 loaded inch reflex
2 Thomann TA 12 active tops

I have just acquired 2 more supers so now doubling and thinking about top end to keep up. I do quite like the sound of the Thomann tops, ply boxes, decent comps, active and about £330 a pop. But would 2x mt121 outplay 4x of these? Or should I be looking at other options?

Edit: Music choice is dub and dub inspired electronic music, mostly indoors but some outdoors events also.

Any advice greatly welcomed!

Thanks


Edited by sarsen1 - 25 August 2022 at 11:51am
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levyte357- View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2022 at 12:56pm
Don't make same mistake, many Reggae systems make.

Always play with 1 kick cab  and 1x MT121 per Scoop, and system will sound great, inside and out.

Would suggest good 2" on large format horn, like PH4525  instead of 1.4.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luton_soundman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2022 at 2:32pm
I prefer reflex for a few reasons even though hornloaded has its advantages also. However i have no idea what drivers the thomann cabs are loaded with. If both styles of cabs are loaded with premium drivers that suit the box there will still be pros and cons to both. You have to figure out what it is you want from your system. Id rather 4 reflex ober 2 mts. But again it all depeds what theyre loaded with.

Edited by luton_soundman - 25 August 2022 at 2:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2022 at 4:50pm
Go for 2 x MT122.

A couple of decent 2" comps (and the P-Audio BMD 750 is a very good driver Smile) is far better than several 1" or 1.4".


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bob4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2022 at 7:29pm
My highly sibjective 2 cents: 

Of course it is good to inquire and know about "proven recipes", but it gets boring pretty fast.
I don't think it is possible to give a generalized "correct" answer to your question. It depends so much on your actual deployments, venues, crowd sizes, SPL requirements etc.......

You are comparing apples to oranges. MT121 is a 40 x25 deg box (at least the mid section).

MT121s are big bulky and somewhat heavy, and always need to be deployed in multiples, but make up for it by going loud. Taking one per side to small gigs is out of the question, they will be wonky on a pole, and don't go low enough. I don't think you can build them for 330£ each unless you skimp on drivers. 

IF your SPL requirements are not excessive, you could get away with smaller midtops such as the ones you currently use. They would also have the advantage of also being suitable for deployment with your "kicks" as a smaller, more conventional system for weddings, functions etc. Active cabs are much easier to dry hire out, and are more likely to earn you cash on the side as opposed to the big rig that is always a hassle with transportation and setup. And with four cabs, you would have a pair for FOH and a pair for (dj) monitors.

Looking at your current the box cabs, they seem a bit heavy at 30 kg, and max out at 120dB. For the same money, there are other options available at the thomann online shop, that are less heavy and boast higher SPL output.
On the other hand, if you are happy with the SPL and sound signature of your current cabs, you might as well go that route and double up, it would be the easiest option.

I would also take a closer look at the 10" active tops available. Since you are using kicks, you don't need massive midbass output from your tops, and could hence go for more compact, lighter options. The 10" driver could also potentially give you nicer mids than a 12", and beam less. 
Smaller, lighter, a bit fancier internal processing etc.....

Ideally you could order a couple of different cabs to audition and compare, and then send back the ones you reject. 

Of course in that price range you are looking mainly at injection molded plastic cabs...... aesthetic and "street cred" considerations might also come into play. 





But then again, if you always rinse your system all out....... ymmv


Edited by bob4 - 29 August 2022 at 7:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2022 at 7:56pm
Mt121 on a pole is definitely out of the question. I don't think one a side with a 60° horn is out of the question at all though. And they'll go down to 150hz or so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sarsen1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2022 at 10:48am
Thanks for the replies. I do currently use the tops with the 15" cabs for smaller gigs, when I build 2 more 15s, 2 aside with one TA12 top aside would make a nice small rig for doing live stuff etc too. 

I like the idea having a versatile rig that can work as standard PA for hire/live work but also looks and sounds respectable in "soundsystem" form with my scoops underneath. 

Although heavy for their size the ta12 make setting up as the above picture a one man job which is nice, guessing mt121 or 122 would be more of a struggle.

Can't find some exact numbers but guessing 1 mt121 would do around 130db continuous? 2 TA12 could do 123db if 1 does 120db? But maybe 2 TA12 per side could have better coverage than 1 MT?

I think perhaps I should just keep an eye out on second hand market for some MTs to try out, then make an informed choice. So far the system has been put together on somewhat of a shoestring by picking up second hand bargains and tarting the cabs up. Would love 4x MTs but currently a little out of budget.

Other option would be 2x sealed double 12 inch boxes and 2 inch comps on top..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2022 at 11:29am
I suggested MT121s, because for years since 2012, been helping mate out with medium to large size gigs, inside and out.

Especially if using with 15" reflex or 18" BPH kick/low mid bin running upto 170hz, only cabs I found superior to MT121s are P0rn Horns, Martin/ASS mid cabs/Mykey 12" Fibre glass with phase bungs.

We have personally used 8x MT121s to cover 5000 people in huge venue, 4x MT121s to easily cover upto 500ppl, in smaller venues.

MT122s are monstrously heavier, and don't have dispersion or high frequency SPL, due to not being 1x 2" Comp per 12" driver.

We ignored the general rules, and loaded MT121s with 90x40 horn, which gave improved SPL with 2".

Not everyone will agree with above, but it's a formula we used successfully for a decade, and got paid, so don't care.


Edited by levyte357- - 30 August 2022 at 11:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2022 at 11:40am
Broadwater Farm, North London, Royal Jubilee 2012.

Council was afraid riot would start, if music stopped, so they allowed us to play until 00:00hrs, approx 1,000 people listening to 4x MT121s, 2x 2x18 Boke Turbo copy BPH kickbins, 4x 18" ASS Scoops.






Edited by levyte357- - 30 August 2022 at 11:45am
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sarsen1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sarsen1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2022 at 12:59pm
I think long term 4x MT121 would be great. Maybe I could try and find 2 and the another pair later down the line. The 18TBX100 loaded scoops sound great but I guess wont be the loudest compared to void/pd scoops of other types so maybe 2x MT121 would cover me for the time being?

Still have 2 of 4 scoops to load, 2 mids to build and load and amp upgrades to happen before I can finally get to my end goal of 4 scoop/4 reflex mid/4 midtop stack... Slowly slowly!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2022 at 1:40pm
As you can use MT121 in small or large venues, "Personally", would suggest, just focus on MT121s, the 15" reflex kicks run up to 200hz, and the MT121 12" section coming in at 180hz, means you can really power them, and give them substantial eq from 900hz - 1700hz, to flatten response.

Key with MT121s, load them with quality drivers, not cheapies.

Would say at a minimum Fane 12MBs/Oberton 12B450, higher end of the Scale B&C Neos, or  18sound 12MB650+.

Personally don't rate Paudio Comps, Cheapest comps I consider are Beyma CP750TI.
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sarsen1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sarsen1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2022 at 10:50am
All good points, the few MT121s I have heard were a little on the harsh side but probably down to comp choice/overpowering
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