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Sheggy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sheggy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 4-chan amps
    Posted: 05 December 2018 at 1:55pm
what install amp would the forum reccomend to drive four ceiling speakers. Preferably 120w-150w per into 8R.
It might be sensible to go fanless but quality would trump that. 
Looking forward to your suggestions.
S



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote imageoven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2018 at 2:52pm
Cloud VTX4240.

Although I haven't used Cloud much since their manufacturing moved away from the UK, they have always made very reliable kit.
Keep pushing on, things are gonna get better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wires Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2018 at 7:13pm
If you have the budget then powersoft quattrocanali 1204 would be my choice, 1u, energy efficient, easy to use and sound very good.
Get the dsp model if you want full control.

Can’t go wrong with cloud kit either tbh, mostly bombproof.
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4AC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4AC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2018 at 8:50am
When it comes to quality and long-life reliability, my preference for this application would be:

1x Lab.Gruppen E5:4
The E-series have asymmetric channel loading, so you can have 8 ohm load on ch. 1 and a 70V load on ch. 3, for example.


OR

2x Lab.Gruppen Lucia 240/2 (or the Matrix version depending on the application)
There's a cheap but effective 19" rackmount kit for 2 Lucia's:


Both series are very nicely built and have very low power consumption, enforced by the Energy Star rating. They are all actively cooled, but the fans are temperature controlled, so I wouldn't be worried about that. They have plenty more features, you can find for yourself in the datasheets for example.
But maybe most importantly, you get a 10 YEAR WARRANTY on all Lab.Gruppen products!!

It's more cost effective than the Powersoft option also, especially if you can get a good deal at a dealer/importer.



Edited by 4AC - 06 December 2018 at 8:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wires Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2018 at 10:16am
Unfortunately as good as lab products were, they are now owned by behringer. My experience with them has not been the greatest and try to stay away from their support service as much as possible for an easier life...
The Lucia is a good option, although always found there lab install amps not quite the same sound quality as their bigger touring models - fp,fp+, was plm
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4AC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4AC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2018 at 10:53am
I do not always understand all the negativity about Behringer/Music on this forum.
Prices of all products (midas, lake, labgruppen, etc etc) have gone down a lot over the last couple of years, whilst warranty is increased to 10 years. Besides this, they are investing in the brands and 'keeping them alive' by introducing new products. Lucia, D-series, E-series, they are all relatively new. It wouldn't surprise me if Lake would be coming with a new product-line soon (let's hope for the least).

The way they revitalize brands is not always received positively. For example Turbosound gets a lot of criticism, because they position themselves as a brand that has 'bang for buck'. They compete with the QSC K-series, JBL SRX, Bose columns, RCF Art and name it all. There is the big money, because there are the big quantities. They do not want to compete with the L'Acoustics, D&B Audiotechnik, Meyer sound and so on. You know why? Because it is a waste of time and money. Another example: the midas m32 is sometimes put down as a behringer with a different logo (is not true), with all the hating of it. But in the meantime it is about the best-selling mixer in the market. Crazy right?
The fact is that if Turbosound did not made that 'strategy change', then the Turbosound brand would have been bankrupt a long time ago. And strategy changes are always accompanied by negativity and complaining of people who can not handle changes.

Regarding the after sales / support service: the manufacturer can be contacted directly via mail, but there are also several employees that reply directly on FB groups. I think opinions differ regarding the after sales of Music, but as always you only hear the negative stories and not the positive ones. Nevertheless, with this kind of brand, I think most of the service should come down to the dealer or importer you are doing business with.

Regarding the sound quality: C-series is the installation version of FP-series, D-series is the installation version of PLM+. The Lucia, IPD and E-series are not on the same level as FP and PLM sound wise, this is also justified by the price. But from my own experience (I have used Lucia, E, C, D, PLM, FP, IPD) the sound quality is still on a relatively high level.

The quatrocannali/duocanalli DSP versions should probably be compared with LabGruppen D-series (with Lake or Biamp).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wires Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2018 at 2:05pm
i Think you are taking what I wrote a bit harsh.

nothing wrong with cheap and cheerful, everyone has a budget and can’t always fit in with the bigger stuff, that’s why I literally wrote the precursor ‘if you have the budget’ before recommending powersoft. Depends what your client is after.

Personally I believe the warranty going up on products like Behringer and price going down is because they know failure rates of components used and the margins between them in order to offer that.
Doesn’t mean products without that warranty get less support from their makers.

The issue with selling long warranty to clients is basically telling them ‘when it fails, and it probably will, we’ll send it back through their claims form and get a new one’. Not exactly ideal.
Again it’s a personal thing; but I try to extol the virtues of a product that will last and has support even outside of warranty wherever possible, just sound economy in my book.

I’ve been a large lab user and fan for well over a decade. I’ve demo’ed and ab’ed loads of amps, in the end i’ve Swapped out them all for powersoft this year quite a bit of investment.
I install powersoft amps in loads of different types of venues and personally for the money and versatility you get a product well above the majority.
Support wise I can’t fault in the slightest in the uk, friendly, efficient, helpful and knowledgeable.

We a few certain other brands it’s always felt like it a pain to deal with or that they just can’t be bothered because the price of the product was cheap anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sheggy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2018 at 3:40pm
thanks for the very useful replies, keep em coming.
S

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4AC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2018 at 4:07pm
You might get even more useful replies, if you give some detailled information:

What is the application? Is this a small part of a bigger install, or not?
Do you already know what brand/model/type of ceiling speakers you will be using?
Will the amp be working 'stand alone', or in conjunction with f.e. a matrix mixer/pre-amp/source?
Where will the amp be located? In a rack, behind a bar, on top of a ceiling, 100 km away from the speakers...? lol

Lab.Gruppen even have a polemount for the Lucia amplifier. Ideal if you want to hang it in a truss, or if the application is a strip club



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Sheggy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sheggy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2018 at 9:38am
OK more information,  this is to drive four Monitor Audio CS180 units (https://www.monitoraudio.com/en/product-ranges/slim/cs180/) in my kitchen which is just 25 sq M.
I like the Lucia because it's small form and can drive all four speakers, so only two channels needed. As for sources, this will be a compact mixer providing line in, balanced line in, (mostly from wifi and Bluetooth).

I'm approaching this like an install because mine is a hard-working kitchen where music is as important as the cooker and this forum is where I get feedback on all of my ideas. 

So, another question: as I am now looking at a 2-chan power amp that can do sub 4R loads, what good quality 2nd hand amps would you recommend. I like the Crest CA2 for this. 
S
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danny A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2018 at 10:17am
the Lab Lucia amps will go into automatic standby when not in use too which is a useful feature, + onboard dsp and matrix, unbalanced and balanced inputs and GPIO and will even drive a 2Ω load

Edited by Danny A - 08 December 2018 at 10:21am
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