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4x v1000 and proline 3000

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king david View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king david Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 December 2018 at 8:53pm

I've seen them destroy entire sections of sound systems a few times, and while most of those times they were run well into clipping, I've seen them killing drivers without actually being driven to clip, but with good limiting with a nice DSP. It may have been that the drivers were quite old, but still, they're widely used in the amateur scene and I can't say many good things about them.
I tested them vs my Crests and then the FFAs, the latter cost much more but old used Crests aren't more expensive than a Proline. If you don't want to risk catastrophic consequences you better stay well out of clip (I think the actual clipping starts a little before the red lights go on, definitely Crest limiting is so much better). Most important, they don't sound that good, neither are so powerful, it was like night and day vs Crests and FFAs.


Edited by king david - 13 December 2018 at 8:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote just passing thru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 December 2018 at 8:55pm
sorry to interfere with your conversation. but need to know your thoughts. i got 2 crown 5002 amps and 4 void 18-1000 loaded in scoops and thinking to run 2 v18-1000 on each amp bridge mode. one amp is to weak to run all 4  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king david Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 December 2018 at 9:16pm
do it, but don't get carried away too much when you play your scoops! You'll probably hear when you get close to the limit. Still, I remember 8 scoops driven by two crown 5000vz as very heavy sounding, drivers couldn't take much more
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2018 at 1:55am
Define ‘good limiting’ for me?

Did the user actually measure the RMS voltage or current required to cause heat buildup in the magnet or coil of the driver once in the box and set the limiter to that value? Or did they just take the AES rating and stick it in a calculator?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2018 at 7:38am
If clip is a problem you can try to find its bigger brother A-One 4400.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack_The_Ripper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2018 at 8:31am
Originally posted by king david king david wrote:


I've seen them killing drivers without actually being driven to clip... If you don't want to risk catastrophic consequences you better stay well out of clip (I think the actual clipping starts a little before the red lights go on, definitely Crest limiting is so much better). Most important, they don't sound that good, neither are so powerful, it was like night and day vs Crests and FFAs.

This kind of backs up my theory because I thought they did clip before they actually clip, I mean the sound quality degradation about 3db before clipping I heard backs this up. I never clipped the two I had but the sound quality loss about 3db from clipping and the horror stories I read a lot of places of people destroying drivers made me sell mine. I too do believe the clip lights are inaccurate and do think clipping occurs before the clip lights come on so this would lead owners to believe they're only just clipping the amp when in fact clipping occured a while ago at lower level and now they're BADLY clipping the amp regardless of the clip lights only just being tickled. 


Edited by Jack_The_Ripper - 14 December 2018 at 8:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote concept-10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2018 at 9:11am
Three CA copies (OHM badged) on rig resale at the moment, all ment to be immaculate, £400 each is a good price.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timebomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2018 at 9:33am
Could well be the front panel clip indicators on these amps are not always calibrated correctly, ive seen it on several other amps, and not just Chinease amps...  

I think the fact that they have huge supply capable of delivering very high currents will have something to do with it, as has been said many other amps will limit current if you push them to the edge with lot crest factor / clipped signal, the inf8 V2 had a bit of a rep for blowing drivers and i put that down to the very high current delivery , and the confusing limiter... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2018 at 9:56am
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Could well be the front panel clip indicators on these amps are not always calibrated correctly, ive seen it on several other amps, and not just Chinease amps...  

I think the fact that they have huge supply capable of delivering very high currents will have something to do with it, as has been said many other amps will limit current if you push them to the edge with lot crest factor / clipped signal, the inf8 V2 had a bit of a rep for blowing drivers and i put that down to the very high current delivery , and the confusing limiter... 


+100

You really have to check exactly where these amps start to distort with a proper meter - or scope - not rely on the clip LEDs!

And a lot of people/amps will get away with it because of a weak PSU. It sounds like the 3000 does what it says, so will blow drivers unless properly limited. And you have to understand exactly what the AES specs mean, as well as compensating for the type of muzak and dynamics (crest factor).

I can still remember the first acid house dj thing I did - after a 'normal´gig. The highly compressed signal - and continuous redlining by the dj´s cost me 2 x Gauss 4583´s. An expensive lesson.   Cry



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2018 at 11:03am
Originally posted by Jack_The_Ripper Jack_The_Ripper wrote:

Originally posted by king david king david wrote:


I've seen them killing drivers without actually being driven to clip... If you don't want to risk catastrophic consequences you better stay well out of clip (I think the actual clipping starts a little before the red lights go on, definitely Crest limiting is so much better). Most important, they don't sound that good, neither are so powerful, it was like night and day vs Crests and FFAs.




This kind of backs up my theory because I thought they did clip before they actually clip, I mean the sound quality degradation about 3db before clipping I heard backs this up. I never clipped the two I had but the sound quality loss about 3db from clipping and the horror stories I read a lot of places of people destroying drivers made me sell mine. I too do believe the clip lights are inaccurate and do think clipping occurs before the clip lights come on so this would lead owners to believe they're only just clipping the amp when in fact clipping occured a while ago at lower level and now they're BADLY clipping the amp regardless of the clip lights only just being tickled. 



Clipping is a symptom however. The CAUSE of the failure is still too much long term average current.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king david Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2018 at 11:18am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Define ‘good limiting’ for me?

Did the user actually measure the RMS voltage or current required to cause heat buildup in the magnet or coil of the driver once in the box and set the limiter to that value? Or did they just take the AES rating and stick it in a calculator?


Cant remember how the limiter was set, but the amp was kept below clip.

The people who do like you suggest most probably use other amps. Cant see proline amps in professional rigs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dub Specialist Sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2018 at 1:36pm
Pretty sure them ohm amps are Chinese too arnt tha?
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