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60째 or 90째 horizontal dispersion

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Poll Question: most versatile horizontal dispersion for single speaker a side.
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cravings View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 October 2019 at 6:47pm
if you could choose dispersion of 60 or 90 wide in a pair of tops for one a side usage, which would you choose? 60s can be good for pointing away from walls etc, 90s obviously useful for covering a wider area.

but if it could only be one or the other, which do you think would suit most jobs?

just curious..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2019 at 9:58pm

Some choose a narrow degree horn because it offers greater SPL than a wide degree horn. You need the horn that works best your applications regardless what anyone else uses.

 

I was spoiled decades ago with wide dispersion horns. I like the idea of having one horn dispersing the sound than a bunch of small horns. You eliminate the phase issues that way.

 

Which ever route you plan to take, focus on the dispersion over 8 kHz. Many horns become severely narrow in the high frequencies regardless the degree pattern of the horn. The Polar Response will answer more questions than you might imagine.

 

Best Regards,



Edited by Elliot Thompson - 21 October 2019 at 10:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyklist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2019 at 10:58pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

if you could choose dispersion of 60 or 90 wide in a pair of tops for one a side usage, which would you choose? 60s can be good for pointing away from walls etc, 90s obviously useful for covering a wider area.

but if it could only be one or the other, which do you think would suit most jobs?

just curious..

you thinking of building PM90/PM60?
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cravings View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2019 at 11:24pm
i have toyed with the idea. question is general though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2019 at 12:26am
The only person who can answer that is the person who will be using them. If you do gigs mostly in long, narrow rooms then the narrower coverage. If they are wider, but shallower then the wider horn makes sense.

Also, are the rooms nice, treated spaces with soft furnishings and stuff to diffuse the sound, or are they horrible reflective concrete and tile boxes?

Before choosing, I would look at the isobar data for the given horn and if possible, entire box. Polars are one thing, but an isobar plot is a lot easier to grasp as a picture of how the entire box behaves because it shows all frequencies at once. There셲 no point having a box with a 60 degree horn if it only holds that pattern from say 1.4k to 8k, with everything below spraying wider and everything above being narrower. And yes, that셲 actually surprisingly common.

Constant directivity horns may not sound as nice as some of the other types on axis, but they give a lot more even coverage to all of the audience. Is that your design goal? Or is it better to have exceptional sound for a small portion of a room?

Again, these are not questions that the internet can answer for you. You know your own venues, gigs, and needs. The trick is that one pattern is never inherently better than another, it셲 a factor of knowing what your speakers do, and designing the system in terms of splay, tilt, and such to ensure that sound achieves the desired end goal.

Edited by toastyghost - 22 October 2019 at 12:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madboffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2019 at 8:49pm
That's an excellent reply.
Can the mods make it a "sticky" ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tonskulus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2019 at 9:02pm
I have some 100x100 JBL horns and even these will beam at high fequencies. It really is annoying if lower freq has much wider dispersion.  Walk away from speakers and midrange fades off while high frequencies keeps going. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2019 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by Tonskulus Tonskulus wrote:

I have some 100x100 JBL horns and even these will beam at high fequencies. It really is annoying if lower freq has much wider dispersion.  Walk away from speakers and midrange fades off while high frequencies keeps going. 



What is the model number of the JBL?

I own JBL 100 x 100 Tweeters and they do not beam. But they are around 40 years old.... The only man that was capable of making a lack of beaming above 8 kHz in a horn at that time was Don Keele. He worked for JBL and Electro-voice. Don Keele is the person behind the Constant Directivity Horn among other designs.

Best Regards,
Elliot Thompson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2019 at 10:55pm
You  know the answer is both so you have the right box for each situation and venue!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tonskulus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2019 at 5:46am
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by Tonskulus Tonskulus wrote:

I have some 100x100 JBL horns and even these will beam at high fequencies. It really is annoying if lower freq has much wider dispersion.  Walk away from speakers and midrange fades off while high frequencies keeps going. 



What is the model number of the JBL?

I own JBL 100 x 100 Tweeters and they do not beam. But they are around 40 years old.... The only man that was capable of making a lack of beaming above 8 kHz in a horn at that time was Don Keele. He worked for JBL and Electro-voice. Don Keele is the person behind the Constant Directivity Horn among other designs.

Best Regards,

Its "baby butt" biradial horn,  (JBL SR4722A speakers).  Cannot remember the horn model number atm, but I have been using these for small outdoor parties and noticed that high frequencies has somewhat more "throw" compared to midrange.  

Very nice speakers however and can take lots of punishment no problem, good for "short throw" wide dispersion applications.




Edited by Tonskulus - 23 October 2019 at 5:47am
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2019 at 7:48am

If you want nothing lower than 100 degrees from a compression horn in the midrange section (650 Hz) to the high frequency section (13 kHz), the horn will be as wide as the JBL 4722a laying on it's side.

 

High frequencies are always the ones to drop in SPL as you move farther away from the cabinets unless, you are using a lot of tweeters to create a very wide degree horizontally. So a single Bi-radial horn in the 4722a will do a better job than a single Bullet Tweeter (Bullet Tweeters are 40 degree Conical) on the market today.

 

Best Regards,

Elliot Thompson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tonskulus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2019 at 10:44am
Yes. I'm currently designing all-horn loaded mid-tops. And there is one thing I want to use: JBL 2445J + 2380A - just because I have them laying around. I like that amazingly articulative sound and transient response they produce, tho horns itself could be better. 
Something like three way  100-600Hz / 600-6000Hz / 6000Hz+. 
 
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