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60x40 HF-Horn

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Jo bg View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 11:21am
a couple thoughts after a second look…
is there a reason why your "ribs" are so short? making them longer like xt1464 could improve rigidity but maybe also help keeping the halves straight in the printing process.

another question, the termination seems a bit sudden compare to the flare, did you try and sim a shallower terminus, or a rounded one like again xt1464?

I know one has to design between constrains so maybe i was not possible.

Any way good pattern control for pa usable frequencies!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ARR_PG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 12:32pm
Did you use "subdomain modelling" in ABEC?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JulianDA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

That print looks very good! On diyaudio.com someone else was 3d printing horns and had a lot more problems with cracks and warping......

If you oversize the print to have a bit of extra waste material at the edge, you could sand the edges of the two halves flat on a stone or glass slab with sandpaper glued onto it, to get a perfect fit without gaps.

But i suppose fiberglass will be much stronger in the end.


Thanks for your input :) Since i have not enough filament left, my partner in crime prints another horn as one piece...but its just for the fun of it. I already made a plaster mold from my print (which was its whole purpose from the beginning)
I will keep you updated when i have more to show :)

Originally posted by odc04r odc04r wrote:

I think is the DIYaudio thread you might be thinking of, a very large 2 part print for a unity horn mid-high segment, there's discussion of how some issues due to print bed induced warping etc were fixed due to the size of the prints

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/312414-3d-printed-3-unity-waveguide-home-audio-speaker.html

I've always wanted to do something similar, and I have access to an ultimaker with a decent bed size. But there is always something else first, it's quite far down the project list.

Nice work though, always enjoy seeing designs come through simulation then a CAD/CAM workflow to reality.


Thank you :) i would say just go for it and print something....i mean what could go wrong? If you would like to print my design for testing or just for fun, i can give you the STL-File ;)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JulianDA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by Jo bg Jo bg wrote:

a couple thoughts after a second look…
is there a reason why your "ribs" are so short? making them longer like xt1464 could improve rigidity but maybe also help keeping the halves straight in the printing process.

another question, the termination seems a bit sudden compare to the flare, did you try and sim a shallower terminus, or a rounded one like again xt1464?

I know one has to design between constrains so maybe i was not possible.

Any way good pattern control for pa usable frequencies!


I just put the ribs there to make the flange for the driver a little bit sturdier. The whole horn ist printed 5mm thick with 1,2mm walls and a relatively dense infill, so it really feels like a solid part when hold in hand and knocked on... so for the testing i did with it, it was more than sturdy enough :)

Regarding the flare and termination i actually took the xt1464 that i have also laying here as a model for my first version of my horn and optimised it to my usecase from there on.
Maybe my pictures didn´t show it clearly so i made two halfsection views of the hornflare.

Horizontal:

and vertical:
 

Originally posted by Jo bg Jo bg wrote:

What's the  size?


The Horn measures 220mm in the horizontal, 160mm in the vertical and is 133mm deep.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JulianDA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by ARR_PG ARR_PG wrote:

Did you use "subdomain modelling" in ABEC?


Yes i used subdomains in ABEC if that is what you where asking. Maybe you can elaborate your question a bit more so i can give you a better answer :) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ARR_PG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 1:58pm
Cool. Ok. Just when you said you simmed without the IB Plane. I thought maybe you did not have subdomains. 

I have this in most solving scripts. 

Subdomain_Properties "Exterior"
  Subdomain=4 
  ElType=Exterior 
  IBPlane=Pos; 

Nice work :), love the 3D printing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JulianDA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by ARR_PG ARR_PG wrote:

Cool. Ok. Just when you said you simmed without the IB Plane. I thought maybe you did not have subdomains. 

I have this in most solving scripts. 

Subdomain_Properties "Exterior"
  Subdomain=4 
  ElType=Exterior 
  IBPlane=Pos; 


Mine looks like this (depending of the simulation i want to do i just turn on or off the IB and Exterior)

//Subdomain Setup

SubDomain_Properties 'Horn'
    SubDomain=1
    ElType=Interior
    Color = blue

SubDomain_Properties 'Exterior'
    SubDomain=2
    ElType=Exterior
    Color = black

off SubDomain_Properties 'Interior'
    SubDomain=3
    ElType=Interior
    //Color = green


//Boundaries

off Elements "Exterior"
    SubDomain=2
    MeshFileAlias="M1"
    MeshFrequency=1kHz
    101 Mesh Include 2, 3, 4, 7


Elements "Horn"
    SubDomain=1
    MeshFileAlias="M1"
    //MeshFrequency=4kHz
    101 Mesh Include 13
    102 Mesh Include 8 SwapNormals


Elements "DriverFront"
    SubDomain=1
    MeshFileAlias="M1"
    //MeshFrequency=4kHz
    101 Mesh Include 22

Infinite_Baffle
    Subdomain=2
    Position=z


Elements "Interface-IB"
    SubDomain=1,2
    MeshFileAlias="M1"
    //MeshFrequency=10kHz
    101 Mesh Include 21 SwapNormals

Originally posted by ARR_PG ARR_PG wrote:


Nice work :), love the 3D printing


Thank you :) I printed it because i think 3D-Printing is the simplest method for getting really accurate Horns relatively quick.....i can´t (and don´t want to) imagine the time needed for doing this manually :D

PS: Are you using ABEC regularly? I still struggle with the LEM-Script for simulating with real driver parameters Confused 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ARR_PG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2020 at 3:06pm
I have been using a mesh like you. My next step is to couple to LE_Scripts.

Elements  "Diaphragms"
  Subdomain=1 
  MeshFileAlias=M
  //SwapNormals
  101   Mesh  Include "Diaphragm_Mesh"   

OR..

 Diaphragm  "Cone front"
  Meshing=Bifu
  DrvGroup=1001   

DrvGroup is the link to LE_Scripts but I am still learning it. I will update you when I figure it out properly. We are in the same boat :)



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ARR_PG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2020 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by JulianDA JulianDA wrote:



And now without the IB just because i did my measurements without any baffle (and yes, i know they look horrendous :D ):


Directivity horizontal in 6dB steps


Directivity vertical in 6dB steps
 

I think if you want to remove the Infinite Baffle, you can create a box for the horn to be in to stop the interference. Just a simple boundary between the rear and the front of the diaphragm like a box, then give the box an external subdomain. I think this will help. 

I saw a similar approach in the example project files in the "Waveguides" folder.  However it used a LE script but did the same thing. The box isnt visible in the "drawing" tab but is explained in the Notes in the script. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JulianDA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2020 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by ARR_PG ARR_PG wrote:


I think if you want to remove the Infinite Baffle, you can create a box for the horn to be in to stop the interference. Just a simple boundary between the rear and the front of the diaphragm like a box, then give the box an external subdomain. I think this will help. 

I saw a similar approach in the example project files in the "Waveguides" folder.  However it used a LE script but did the same thing. The box isnt visible in the "drawing" tab but is explained in the Notes in the script. :)

Thats normally how i do it, but my processor is a bit on the slower side, so i tried to get rid of as much unnecessary boundaries as i could :D Do you think the interference comes from the back of the driver instead of refraction on the edges of the horn?
But to be fair, i only included the graphs without the IB for completeness.... i know from the size of the horn that i get good directivity control to the desired frequencies and everything related to refraction will later come from the actual baffle i put it in, so i am not worried about the simulated interference :)

My plan is to build a small 8/1 speaker with it when i finish the Horn.

At the moment i am creating the mold. It should be ready in a few days (it takes so long since most of the days i have almost no free time because of studying Confused)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JulianDA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2020 at 10:00pm
I have an quite exciting new update for you guys ;)
In the last few days i had enough time to finish my first try at molding the horn out of fibreglass and it worked better than i thought.

But first, this is the plaster mold i used:



I started with a layer of epoxy without the fibreglass (since i forgot to buy the gelcoat Embarrassed)



Then i added i piece of wood with the "flange mold" routered into (or out of?) it. Aswell as the first layers of fibreglass.



After that i did 4-5 additional layers of fibreglass and released the "flange mold" for easier acces to the rest of the horn. The result looked promising.



After a little bit more work i had the quite horrendous task to seperate the horn from the mold. But apparently the two liked each other so much, that they would not come apart without quite a fight (or i screwed up the measurement of the hardener in the first layer so it stayed tacky...we will never know LOL) The result was a damaged mold, but a somewhat presentable horn.



After a bit of cleaning it looked like this.




And this is the final result after a bit of sanding, some drilling, and a few layers of sprayed clear coat...and i have to say, i'm quite pleased with it for a first try and my second time ever working with fibreglass Big smile





The next task is to take some more measurements and see if it works like i want it to. But since i am probably the slowest person on this site when it comes to working on projects, this may take a while.....again LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2020 at 4:04pm
That's looking great! Good work!
Blahblahblah
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