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A little advice please

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IronAyeHiFi View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 February 2021 at 10:32am
Decided to repost this here since my rig is a scoop based rig and didn't get a response in the other catagories.

Hey everyone.

So over the last few years, I've been putting a wee roots rig together. As things stand we've got 4 XB loaded supers, 3 cubo kicks loaded with P-Audio E15 600s, and 3 single driver versions of the smt 212 loaded with BnC 12pe32 and P-Audio BM - D450.

Basically I have a couple questions regarding setting up the limiter on my ultradrive (I've had a go but would really appreciate a bit of clarification/confirmation I've got it right) plus I was wondering what folks think would be the best way to connect everything up. 

Currently I'm just running a 2x4mm 10m cable from each channel of the sub amp to a scoop then linking in parralel to a second scoop. Same for 2 of the kicks but using 2x2.5mm core and then the 3rd kick runs in 8ohm with a single cable from the second amp channel. The mid tops are run using internal cross over and connected to the amp the same way the kicks are wired up. Hope that all makes sense?

Obviously this all does the job for getting some noise of the stack but I can't help but feel there is a better way to do it. Have been having a look through some of the previous threads on this forum which has ultimately given me more options then I know what to do with. So if anyone is up for having a chat with me about all this that'd be great.  And with regards to the limiter stuff, if someone's up for helping I'll get whatever info about my rig they want up along with what I currently have the limiters set too. 

Cheers in advance!
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JBK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JBK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2021 at 10:44am
Greetings,
Maybe you didn't get many answers because there is not a clear question in your post.
Quote Hope that all makes sense?
Yes
Quote Obviously this all does the job for getting some noise of the stack but I can't help but feel there is a better way to do it.
To do what? cabling? The choice of amps? of drivers? of boxes? gain structure? filtering? limiting?
Please explain what is your issue with the rig as it is.
Regarding the limiter on the ultradrive, there is a good calculator on this website : http://hornplans.free.fr/limiteur.html
The calculator is "conservative" so more on the safe side than on the "get every db out of my rig" side (if that makes sense?)
It's french but with a bit of google trad you should be good, also plenty of useful information on this website and on its forum. Also you can search speakerplans forum with google instead of the default search form which is not very intuitive. There is plenty of usefull info on here.


Edited by JBK - 19 February 2021 at 10:49am
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IronAyeHiFi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IronAyeHiFi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2021 at 1:12pm
Thanks for the response and the limiter info. Will have a blast with that site and see where I'm at after. I'm happy to run things on the conservative side for now any way. I'm more keen on quality sound over max spl. 

My question is about the cabling. I.e. Reducing the amount of cabling I have running from my rack, efficiency, that sort of thing. I was wondering if getting a couple of big old 8 core cables is the best way to go? I've also seen posts where people have one cable that runs from the rack, and then the daisy chain every box together. Much of an advantage in that other then how tidy it is?
Cheers again. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JBK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2021 at 2:01pm
Ok, regarding cabling, it's hard to give advice as it's a matter of compromise,
On the number of cables, simplicity to setup, reusability of the cables in different scenarii, etc

One thing you can do to avoid some cable is to use 4 poles speakon.
Most amps (not all, beware!) will output channel a on 1+ / 1- and channel B on the 2+ 2- of the speakon output of the first channel. Using this you can in your current setup have only 1 cable per sections whch will divide by 2 the amount of cable between your amps and cabs.
Then on the cabinet side, either you split the 4-core cable in 2 speakon terminals (1 for each cab) which is the easiest way of doing it, or you can modify the cab to have the "redistribution" of the 2+/2- terminals on another speakon socket.
The downside of doing this, is that you have to be carefull on which cable goes where, instead of having "generic cables. Also you won't be able to physically divide the stack (2 scoops per side for instance)

You can use 8pole speakon but then on the amp side you will have to do some custom cable with many speakon plugs, a custom rack panel / a custom adapter box or an adapter cable,
On the cab side you will have to do the same thing, or modify the cabs, to redistribute the channels on speakon sockets. This can result in some tidy setup (if done right with color codes, etc to avoid any mistakes) but need more work / mods on what you already have

You can reduce the number of cables by putting more speakers in parallel and so dividing the impedence on the amp. This will cause other issues (does your amps support 2ohms or 2.6 ohms, is it what you want to do, also when lowering cab impedance you have to be carefull on the cable section and the amp  will certainly need more current) except if you have top grade amps I wouldn't advise it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2021 at 6:42pm
For the cabling you should be looking to have 2mm^2 MINIMUM per 8R driver.

That would either mean a 2.5mm^2 run to each 8R speaker or a 4mm^2 run if you intend to link to a second cabinet.

NL8 is a neat way to approach it but can be expensive.

Feel free to drop me a message over at www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk for pricing, we specialise in custom setups and have a few different price options for speakons, etc. so ought to be able to find something to suit :)
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