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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2022 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by kipman725 kipman725 wrote:

actually I would revise my opinion a bit if its as weak as the X4, I think that needed something like 14dB crest factor to be capable of full output in the long term in the production partner review.  Plenty of non sub things load the channels with in our systems though.


Production Partner test with 12 dB Crest Factor pink noise, as per the AES standard, as well as sinus bursts.

Before anyone shows off some tunes with a CF of 6-8 dB in the low frequencies, they should generate a 6 dB CF broadband pink noise stimulus & apply a 30 Hz 4th order high pass filter and 100 Hz 4th order low pass filter IIR EQ to it in a DAW. Then use a VST to analyse the resulting CF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipman725 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2022 at 12:17pm
I just re-read and yes 12dB... defo wouldn't want to put a sub anywhere near that amp ha.  Any idea if the X8 is much better? (more airflow)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2022 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by kipman725 kipman725 wrote:

I just re-read and yes 12dB... defo wouldn't want to put a sub anywhere near that amp ha.  Any idea if the X8 is much better? (more airflow)



Are you sure? Its got enough power for most dual-18 reflex, especially when sensibly loaded across the channels so the power sharing feature kicks in. I can burn almost any modern 18" on the planet with an X4, despite it 'only' offering 540 Watts continuous per channel long-term when all four channels are loaded. This is clear when you look at a driver's delta Tv values from their Klippel LSI data

The X8 is better than the X4 due to having bigger fans & intake vents - you get more time of spanking it before the thermal management kicks in. Still best practice is to load it asymmetrically, but we often run subs off all 8 channels and don't find it lacking.

I've shown this elsewhere because it keeps coming up; the highest ranking 4-channel lightweight in that category is the Linea 44M20 at ~920 Watts, but this translates to a little over a decibel more output in reality once power compression is factored in.

Likewise, these are continuous output values; music is dynamic, and 5,000 Watts+ for peaks is what you actually need to play it well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipman725 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2022 at 3:42pm
I agree that dynamic headroom is a priority over sine wave power but the X4 seems to have taken it to an extreme.  I don't have personal experience with these amps so its good to hear that in the real world that they work fine. The PP review gave me the impression that an X4 run near full output would sound like a server farm and become thermally limited during a show when loaded 2/4ohm. 

Saying that I was designing my own sub amp at the beginning of lockdown that took the concept of dynamic headroom even further.  The concept was to use a constant current supply to charge a capacitor bank and escew isolation of the power stage (inputs isolated instead amplifier would be a plate amp).  This capacitor bank would provide the DC bus for a subwoofer amplifier using a look ahead limiter.  I did a basic feasibility analysis using a kick drum sample filtered to sub bandwidth.  From this analysis I see that I'm hitting peaks of >10kW with an average power of  1.32 kW.  Applying this ratio to the long term all channel output power of the X4 @4ohm of 528W I get 4kW which is above the rated power at 4ohm.  I would conclude that the X4 would actually be fine with this kick drum sample loading all 4 channels with subs as the long term power limitations would not be exceeded before the amplifiers clipped.

What I would like to see are tests like this:
https://data-bass.ipbhost.com/topic/917-robs-amp-tests/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-21756


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote concept-10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2022 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by Esc4pe Esc4pe wrote:

Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

I'm considering 2nd most "powerful option", for 1x 4 ohm driver per side.

Bur then, even 2x for £1800, is far cheaper than used Powersoft K20.

Perhaps factor in retained value and re-sale value when looking at equipment costs.
You can buy a used K20 today that has basically done it’s depreciation, use it for a year or two and sell it for more or less what you paid.
What is the retained value in equipment that is not serviced by the manufacturer, has no major market demand and is effectively a door stop when it goes pop?


Every China special amp I see go up for sale used in the UK seems to sell for more than what they actually cost direct from supplier LOL I think people are just trying to avoid oversea shipping I am not sure, it’s a strange arrangement for sure haha! If they are to go bang though you are completely right then

Not the case at all, one of our bought direct CVR 2002s went pop, the soft start went bang wrecking the board, one e-mail later and a whole new module arrived at the door ten days after it went bang totally free of charge, we have two PKNs that have been back at the factory for a couple of months with no idea when we will get them back.
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Esc4pe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Esc4pe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2022 at 9:36am
Originally posted by concept-10 concept-10 wrote:

Originally posted by Esc4pe Esc4pe wrote:

Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

I'm considering 2nd most "powerful option", for 1x 4 ohm driver per side.

Bur then, even 2x for £1800, is far cheaper than used Powersoft K20.

Perhaps factor in retained value and re-sale value when looking at equipment costs.
You can buy a used K20 today that has basically done it’s depreciation, use it for a year or two and sell it for more or less what you paid.
What is the retained value in equipment that is not serviced by the manufacturer, has no major market demand and is effectively a door stop when it goes pop?


Every China special amp I see go up for sale used in the UK seems to sell for more than what they actually cost direct from supplier LOL I think people are just trying to avoid oversea shipping I am not sure, it’s a strange arrangement for sure haha! If they are to go bang though you are completely right then

Not the case at all, one of our bought direct CVR 2002s went pop, the soft start went bang wrecking the board, one e-mail later and a whole new module arrived at the door ten days after it went bang totally free of charge, we have two PKNs that have been back at the factory for a couple of months with no idea when we will get them back.

Impressive, I have a couple that i just accepted the fate of should they go wrong they were at a lower price point anyway. But I that’s good to hear! Hopefully CVR don’t push out a load of new releases like some of the other brands as might be a different story then.

And yeah I’ve had pals in very similar situations with PKN even prior to covid and brexit


Edited by Esc4pe - 23 September 2022 at 8:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2022 at 12:23pm
I haven't bought any of the latest (Chinese) lightweights - but did buy a load of heavyweights a few years ago. I made sure that they also provided several replacement modules for the amps.

In the end, the amps proved to be very reliable and the modules are still unused, but I would never had bought unless the modules were available. Better safe than sorry.  Smile


Earplugs Are For Wimps!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote concept-10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2022 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

I haven't bought any of the latest (Chinese) lightweights - but did buy a load of heavyweights a few years ago. I made sure that they also provided several replacement modules for the amps.

In the end, the amps proved to be very reliable and the modules are still unused, but I would never had bought unless the modules were available. Better safe than sorry.  Smile



Which heavy weights did you buy ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2022 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by concept-10 concept-10 wrote:

Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

I haven't bought any of the latest (Chinese) lightweights - but did buy a load of heavyweights a few years ago. I made sure that they also provided several replacement modules for the amps.

In the end, the amps proved to be very reliable and the modules are still unused, but I would never had bought unless the modules were available. Better safe than sorry.  Smile


 
). 

Which heavy weights did you buy ?
I wouldn't mind knowing too, having taken ownership of something called a ca80. It looks well built, but I'm unsure of whether the components are fakes (njw output transistors). The company (Aimeek) seems to communicate well.
Freedom of choice, choice of freedom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2022 at 3:32am
Originally posted by taurusty taurusty wrote:

Think K30, 35 and AD 42 need to be tested by that group member. Personally don't  think AD 42 is much more powerful than other two given the price difference  between them.

There won't be a significant audible difference in terms of dB output. However, if you want to brag that you have the most powerful amplifier, the AD 42 wins. 

Best Regards,


Elliot Thompson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2022 at 8:44am
Originally posted by concept-10 concept-10 wrote:

Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

I haven't bought any of the latest (Chinese) lightweights - but did buy a load of heavyweights a few years ago. I made sure that they also provided several replacement modules for the amps.

In the end, the amps proved to be very reliable and the modules are still unused, but I would never had bought unless the modules were available. Better safe than sorry.  Smile



Which heavy weights did you buy ?



These:-

http://www.pro001.com/mall/show.php?itemid=23954

And a couple of the "lighter" EX-1000:-

http://www.pro001.com/mall/show.php?itemid=23948


I sold most on, but still have 2 of the 3400's working regularly. Definitely a solidly built amp.













CA18 transformer??






Spare module:-  Smile













Edited by Earplug - 24 September 2022 at 8:45am
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