advice for an RLA inspired system |
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bob4
Old Croc Joined: 29 February 2004 Location: Finland/Germany Status: Offline Points: 1843 |
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don't know if this is public for folks to see, 4520 VS waldorf discussion in the comments…. FWIW….. Edited by bob4 - 29 July 2017 at 12:39pm |
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valve head777
Old Croc Joined: 27 July 2012 Location: East Sussex Status: Offline Points: 1781 |
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What a great thread 😁
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Freedom of choice, choice of freedom.
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budney
Registered User Joined: 24 July 2017 Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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I welcome ideas and questions, the more this gets discussed the happier I am In terms of the 2395, I'm not really holding out on finding a pair on the second hand market, and if they do pop up they will cost an absolute bomb. I doubt theres any in England anyway and most sellers wouldn't like to ship it all the way over from America. I've found someone who said they can make me reproductions of the 2395s (lee are you out there??) which solves that problem. The other problem, is the horn behind the slant lens. Thats going to be the hens tooth! I think maybe someone reproduces them too, but I haven't looked into that yet. 2350s is definitely a good idea if it takes me ages to figure out the 2395s. I'd also be using tweeters for the VHF on the stacks as well as in an array. Good info on the E140, thats the kind of knowledge I was looking for when I posted here, thanks! So, in terms for a rough plan/timeline of this project, I've been thinking about this for a few months now, doing some research, thinking about how hard it'd be to get all the drivers and electronics. There may be someone in NY who has most of the electronics I need, they have the crossover, I've not asked about anything else yet. I've never built/designed a soundsystem/speakers before. I know how to use them, set them up, tune the room etc but in terms of picking the right boxes and designs I'm not too clued up on. So I've ordered some books, Handbook of Soundsystem design, Loudspeaker Design etc so I can do my homework about all the technical details and the science behind it all. Already pretty sure on the JBL scoop style but still want to know WHY instead of just looking and copying others. So I plan on reading through these books, whilst getting a budget together, waiting for things to pop up on ebay etc. Once I feel like I've done enough homework, then the next step would be to build a 4520 for some testing. I can borrow some amps and crossover from where I work, so whilst building and testing I can still be looking for the original electronics, picking them up bit by bit. I plan on building a 4520, maybe a 4530, and maybe a waldorf, still not set in stone. Figure out which one I like, and think about if I want a sub. I'll probably build a few subs of different designs, still pending, to go along with the scoops, so I'll have a few options to try out for a mono stack. Got told off for wanting a sub to go with the JBL scoop as they provide enough bass, but I feel like the subs and the tweeter arrays are more of a DJ effect to be used with the crossover. They complement the full range stack, rather than being a part of it. RE that Facebook thread about the waldorf, I can't see it when I follow that link do you think you could maybe screenshot the rest of it? I would love to see what people have to say. Once I'm happy with whatever combination I go for, then the other stack can be built. That can then at least be used for a few pop up parties if I decide to go down that route. Then its just a matter of finding the right electronics, trawling online, probably stick with a digital crossover for a while for tuning and experimenting purposes. Once I have 2 stacks of an authentic set up, then I can begin looking for parts for the other 2 stacks. This project of the sound system is a part of an even bigger project, which is mainly the space and the building its going to be put in. I've been building my recording studio for over a year, its nearly done now, and I have an electronics workshop but they're getting cramped and its not ideal where they are. So the plan is to find a building where I can have the studio, workshop and party space. Big big undertaking! I'm not going to rush this, I don't expect it to happen overnight. I work freelance so have plenty of free time depending on the time of year. There would be a lot of building work, but again I'm taking inspiration from Paradise Garage and will have construction parties to fund/make use of the space whilst its still quite raw. I plan on acoustically treating the room, again another big undertaking. All this will happen in phases. I'll probably get the 2 stacks sorted first and then begin on the building side of things, I've got a 2 year plan in my head, still really rough, and depending on money of course. It all sounds like a lot of work, but for years now I have always wanted to go to a club that has an amazing sound system in a properly treated space, that doesn't have to conform to the regular club rules of booking big djs, selling enough tickets at a big price, making enough money on the bar to stay open. That can be a safe space for people who don't conform to what is now the standard of the tech house hand flopper taking selfies all night. That doesn't also have to work in a band setting, so they have to compromise the sound for bands as well as djs. Working in clubs and knowing club owners, watching how they run their business, I realised that what I wanted was never going to happen unless I did it myself. The same with my studio, I always wanted to work in a proper recording studio, with a load of juicy analogue gear. I realised this was just never going to happen unless I built it myself, there are none anywhere close to me, let alone any that would employ me in the current climate. If anyone has any ideas/advice for this project, please chip in! Edited by budney - 31 July 2017 at 2:39am |
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bob4
Old Croc Joined: 29 February 2004 Location: Finland/Germany Status: Offline Points: 1843 |
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Hi Budney, sounds like you have a fairly good idea of what you are doing! Amazing project, hope you can pull it off
more food for thought: double scoops rotated 90° to avoid horizontal combing! (never had the opportunity to try this myself)
The one desert island book about system tuning/engineering/measuring you should get: while it is not directly about designing a system from scratch, it contains a lot of fundamental information that will help you understand interaction between cabs better, and hence aid you in the design process as well. |
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T-Bone
Registered User Joined: 27 December 2005 Location: Tampa, FL USA Status: Offline Points: 292 |
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From what I hear the Waldorfs closest cousin is the Imperial Double 15" from Declare.com. From what I know you can load it with different drivers slow type or fast type later being more punch or kick.
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BASS, how low can you go!
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bob4
Old Croc Joined: 29 February 2004 Location: Finland/Germany Status: Offline Points: 1843 |
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This is exactly the stuff you are looking for with the slant lenses etc….. Edited by bob4 - 29 July 2017 at 7:21pm |
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budney
Registered User Joined: 24 July 2017 Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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thanks cheers for the recommendation, will check that book out. With regards to the scoops rotated 90 degrees, according to scott fitlin they're best to be kept standing upright. Will experiment when the time comes but pretty sure thats how they should be. Again need to do some homework on this. Dj punches system looks incredible, the waldorfs he has are what I am interested in...I think finding plans for the real deal is also going to be a bit of a problem...will have to think about the best way to approach that.
I checked out the decware imperial plans, they are massive! Again this is something I want to research more first, If I were to use them in a small room it would probably be overkill...decware mention needing a large room to reduce standing waves etc. Maybe I'll just build one for fun
Edited by budney - 30 July 2017 at 6:35pm |
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budney
Registered User Joined: 24 July 2017 Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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I managed to bring these 2 puppies home today! Really didn't think I'd find any in England, can't believe my luck
Now to start finding everything else! Edited by budney - 13 August 2017 at 7:44pm |
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Hemisphere
Old Croc Joined: 21 April 2008 Status: Offline Points: 2272 |
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Congrats! Looks like good times waiting to happen.
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parabox
Registered User Joined: 03 February 2017 Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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I'm on my. Own 2395 hunt. Here in the US I'm. Getting close to. Breaking down and trying to have replicas fanned but it has proven impossible to find drawings of any kind
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re-production
Registered User Joined: 16 February 2017 Location: Suffolk UK Status: Offline Points: 176 |
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Speak to Tony Rossel. He didn’t make 2395’s but slightly narrower lenses but he will have the dimensions
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budney
Registered User Joined: 24 July 2017 Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Thought I would update this for anyone who's interested...
A year has passed, and I feel like I've made pretty good progress sourcing everything. I have found pretty much all that I need. A quick list... 4 x 2395 lenses 8 x 2402 bullets with some spare 4 x 2405 slots 4 x 2404 baby bums 7(or 8, can't remember) 2440/2441 over 10 2225, can't quite remember how many either lots of BGW power amps, nearly 20 I think, not all working yet Urei 525 GSA x3001(can't believe I actually got one, mint condition too) 2 x Stanton 680 EL MK2 NOS Bozak CMA 2DL (was in very bad condition, have nearly finished restoring it) Still need to get a boombox, holding out for a DBX 500 but they never come up for sale Also got 2 x JBL 4670, as an idea for some small pop up partys before we build the proper system. I would like to test everything out without having to build some boxes, the 4670 is perfect since i can stick the 2441 on the horns, 2225 in the cabs and the slots on top. Once the Bozak is restored thats the next step. All that I need now is some speaker plans! Ive been asking everyone I can find but no one seems to want to share...I'm tempted to modify the decware jensen imperial plans for a larger mouth and 2 drivers, but I'm still a bit rusty on my horn theory so that is just a last resort. Lots of people tell me to just use JBL 4520, but if i'm using the GSA crossover properly, then I'll be running some subs underneath the scoops, so the 4520 might be tuned a bit too low. It would be easier to build since the plans are readily available, but wheres the fun in that! Tempted to go with something small and modern like the Othorn or something similar for the subs, it'll be a small room so a huge horn like the Bertha(with or without extension) I feel is not needed/acoustically incorrect. Perhaps even some reflex subs for proper coverage, but I do like the idea of keeping everything horn loaded. Also I've been thinking about maybe using a 12" flared front loaded horn on top of the scoops for mid bass...some people have been telling me to do that. I think it would be a good upgrade, but for the moment the scoops will do.
Edited by budney - 17 July 2018 at 9:00pm |
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