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Advice needed for beginner system

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jrivo View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 May 2020 at 11:08am
Hi all,

I am a beginner looking to build my first system, after some pieces of advice.

The system I am looking to build would eventually be used at small parties of no more than 100-200 people. 

The plan is to build a system in separate stages, beginning with the subs and working upwards through the frequency bands. 
I already have some full range speakers which would serve the frequencies above the subs as part of the first stage, at least making a functional system if not a particularly good one to begin with.

The current plan is to build two X1's and load them with Void V18-1000's to serve as the subs.

My questions are

1) I am concerned by posts which say the X1 is hard on drivers, is this something I need to worry about, and if so should I go for a different cabinet design?

2) I am confused by the X1's 'power rating' of 800w which is listed on the plan page. Is the power rating of a cabinet the continuous power that the cabinet can handle, or the program/peak? Do other cabinets have power ratings distinct from the power rating that any drivers they are fitted with have?

3) What would be a good option for a speaker management / crossover unit at this beginning stage? Budget would be ideally no more than £400. Need at least a 3 way crossover and a way of setting delay times. I am not at all bothered about it being operable via a phone or iPad etc. (In fact a unit possible to operate without this kind of software would appeal to me greatly).

4) A somewhat more speculative question...what units would be suitable at my level to serve as analogue crossovers, and also if they exist at all, what units are there for setting the delay times for the various speakers which do not digitise the signal? (This is not to be a bore about the analogue/digital debate, but at the least it seems to me that if turntables and vinyl records are being played through a sound system, it seems counterintuitive to digitise the signal). I appreciate that this may only be reasonably possible through DSP, but if there is any way at all to achieve the same effect without digital effects, I would be interested to know.

Apologies in advance for my ignorance! 

Cheers


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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 11:42am
2) it's just the wattage of the suggested driver.
3) and 4) behringer dcx2496. New is £200ish from thomman with 3 year warranty. Does everything you need, and flexible enough to accommodate your system as it grows.  

The analogue idea is just a lot of effort for too little reward imho. If you use vinyl to impart a particular sound, and then a digital signal can maintain it without significant colouration or distortion, where's the problem?
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jrivo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrivo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 11:53am
Thanks for your reply, its made things a lot clearer.

No problem with digital at all per se, I was only wondering if it was possible. The question regarding analogue was more out of curiosity than anything. How were speakers aligned before the invention of DSP, if at all?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 12:53pm
X1 is hard on drivers, as in, a weak driver won't survive in it. the Void V18-1000 is a strong driver and proven to work well in this box. i have 6 void loaded X1s and one driver developed a slight tear in the surround but otherwise they've survived over 10 years of occasional but many gigs.
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jrivo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrivo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 2:36pm
Ok great, thank you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 3:15pm
Every type of filter, analog or digital ,causess a (usually frequency dependent) delay , and there are also allpass filters that cause only delay but not frequency alterations.
So before dsp it was careful crossover building plus physical alignment (that is puttin one driver nearer than the other, to offset time delay -works better on axis).
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jordanclarkdj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jordanclarkdj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 10:59pm
Hi guys 

I am also new and like Jrivo 


and plan to get a carpenter friend to build a box like this 

I was just wondering if anyone could link me to something similar or had better images and sizing for us to make this.

also I have currently a europower EP4000 amplifier , I have been made aware that I need a amp with a built in crossover to power the tops , can anyone suggest something that isn't too expensive

any help greatly appreciated, I am a DJ but the whole sound engineering world is new to me. 

Thanks 
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studio45 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote studio45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 1:53pm
I don't think that driver is a particularly good match for that bin - it was designed for old Eminence drivers, whereas that "I Can't Believe It's Not A PD1850" is a different, stronger and much more modern kind of driver. It ought to work well in the X1. 

If you want a bit more upper bandwidth and are less bothered about response below 50Hz, then the ES18 might be a good bet (they're also very easy to build). 

You don't necessarily need an amp with built-in crossover to drive the midtops. If you buy the DCX2496 it will do all the crossing over for you. 

The EP4000 will make an OK job of driving your bass bins, although it's not known to be the best. You could look at buying something like an older Void, Crest, Crown or JBL amp for your bins, and then using the EP4000 for your midtops. 

Of course if you want to run your midtops "active", ie with no internal passive crossover (note that the word "active" is usually used this way, it doesn't mean there is an amp inside the box - for that we would say "powered"), you will need a third amp. The DCX2496 has six outputs, so it can drive a stereo three-way system. 
Studio45 - Box Builder Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sonic the hedge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by studio45 studio45 wrote:

"I Can't Believe It's Not A PD1850" 

Classic LOL

In all seriousness, would be very careful with the X1, the box is brutal and renowned for being tough on drivers, even the mighty v18 has been known to tear.

 It should work but be careful not to push it too hard.


Edited by Sonic the hedge - 23 May 2020 at 3:05pm
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jordanclarkdj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jordanclarkdj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 4:35pm
do you have a link to the ES18 that I can take a look at for how to build please 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sonic the hedge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 8:07pm

https://forum.speakerplans.com/es18bph_topic27036.html



Edited by Sonic the hedge - 23 May 2020 at 8:10pm
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