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Slipshod View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 January 2020 at 3:27pm
Hey, 

I'm a bit of a newbie, so I'm after an amp to power my 4x 800w USB2's 

I was told not to get a MC2 E15 for £450 as this would only be 350w ish per sub (maybe I couldhave ran it in bridge at 3000w though?)

I've also been offered a Matrix xp3000h for £425, this should run my subs at 750w each at 4ohm (2 on each channel) 

Is the Matrix worth the money, i'm not sure of the age of it, but it's recently been serviced.

I'm also after any other alternatives (ideally cheaper)

Would I be better getting 2 1500-2kw amps and splitting the subs up?

I just missed out on a proline 3k for £250 which i'm pretty sad about but something in that price range would be ideal!

Any advice would be great :D 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobinMatrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2020 at 1:18am
It all depends on what you mean by "800w"

Is that the AES rating or the programme rating?

If it is the programme rating an amp doing around 1500W a side into 4 Ohms would be about right, a typical "3K" amp.

If that is the AES rating, you basically want double that.  What actual drivers are in the subs?
Matrix Amplification Limited ::http://pa.matrixamplification.com/"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacethebase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2020 at 7:58am
I have P3000RL’s going for £300+VAT at the moment.

There my last ones, hence the price. Not the cleanest but work.


Edited by jacethebase - 09 January 2020 at 7:58am
www.wedding-production.co.uk

www.stage2sound.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slipshod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2020 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by RobinMatrix RobinMatrix wrote:

It all depends on what you mean by "800w"

Is that the AES rating or the programme rating?

If it is the programme rating an amp doing around 1500W a side into 4 Ohms would be about right, a typical "3K" amp.

If that is the AES rating, you basically want double that.  What actual drivers are in the subs?


good question! I'm not too sure as I got the subs second hand, but assuming they are the original drivers this is all the info I have on them. 

https://www.stableaudio.co.uk/flux-series-usbv2 - https://www.stableaudio.co.uk/flux-series-usbv2 
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Mikkel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2020 at 5:24pm
I dont know if they are the original drivers but i bought 4 fane 18b800's that had come out of some usb2's. Could be the same seeing as the 'watt' figure is the same. Very good drivers if they are. If you can open them up and post some pics im sure the community could confirm for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobinMatrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2020 at 1:58am
Originally posted by Slipshod Slipshod wrote:


good question! I'm not too sure as I got the subs second hand, but assuming they are the original drivers this is all the info I have on them.


So, let's assume they are the original drivers,  and Tom always uses good quality products, so they should be.

The cabs are rated  800 watt AES  so they'll take around 1600W programme and I would recommend you look for an amplifier that will deliver about 3200W into 4 ohm per  channel, 6400W total.

I would not recommend our 3000W amplifer, the XP3000H you mentioned earlier, that would be too small, only about half the needed power.

If it was an amplifer from our range, I would recommend the XT5000MF (maybe just a little too small) or the XT7000MF (just a little too big, don't drive it too hard!) I'd probably go for the 5000 if it was me.

There are of course many other brands and styles, but something around that sort of size shoudl drive them nicely.


Edited by RobinMatrix - 10 January 2020 at 2:02am
Matrix Amplification Limited ::http://pa.matrixamplification.com/"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slipshod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2020 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by RobinMatrix RobinMatrix wrote:

So, let's assume they are the original drivers,  and Tom always uses good quality products, so they should be.


Thanks for all the advice! I'll open them up and get a photo of the drivers tonight :)

So my MT's ( https://www.stableaudio.co.uk/flux-series-kmtv2 - https://www.stableaudio.co.uk/flux-series-kmtv2) are AES so I assume this is why running them on my behringer KM1700s are clipping at such low Volumes? 

Got 2 of these amps with the speakers along with an ultradrive, was hoping to use 1 for the mids, 1 for the highs and get a third for the subs but being AES I may need to upgrade all the amps? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slipshod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2020 at 6:39pm
Hey, so you're right, they are Fane and also AES

https://www.fane-international.com/view-product/COLOSSUS-18-800N - https://www.fane-international.com/view-product/COLOSSUS-18-800N

if i'm honest, there's no way I can afford the XT5000MF atm, If I was to get the XP3000h, would I still be able to power them to a half decent level and get another 3kw amp in the future to give them the power I need? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2020 at 6:06am
Originally posted by Slipshod Slipshod wrote:

Hey, so you're right, they are Fane and also AES

https://www.fane-international.com/view-product/COLOSSUS-18-800N - https://www.fane-international.com/view-product/COLOSSUS-18-800N

if i'm honest, there's no way I can afford the XT5000MF atm, If I was to get the XP3000h, would I still be able to power them to a half decent level and get another 3kw amp in the future to give them the power I need? 


Yea i had the ferrite version, its the same cone looking at the mms on the spec sheet. Tbh mate you will be fine running them on the xp3000, they are very light cones (so very efficient) and dont require a thrashing to get them singing. You might as well 'underpower' and make some noise, just be careful on the clipping s'all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobinMatrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2020 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by Slipshod Slipshod wrote:

, If I was to get the XP3000h, would I still be able to power them to a half decent level and get another 3kw amp in the future to give them the power I need? 


Sadly, no.   Running one cab per side on a pair of 3K amps would not deliver any more power overall (well, a small amount, but not noticeable) than running 2 cabs per side off 1 amp.

Basically, a "3K into 4 ohm" amp of any flavour doesnt deliver enough voltage ... you need roughly 70% more voltage than it provides.    Using 2 amps will not help.

You could bridge one, but that would then be more voltage than you need, and also it would only be able to drive one cab.
Matrix Amplification Limited ::http://pa.matrixamplification.com/"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobinMatrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2020 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Mikkel Mikkel wrote:


Yea i had the ferrite version, its the same cone looking at the mms on the spec sheet. Tbh mate you will be fine running them on the xp3000, they are very light cones (so very efficient) and dont require a thrashing to get them singing. You might as well 'underpower' and make some noise, just be careful on the clipping s'all.


To be fair, an XP3000H will make a decent bit of bass through them, the slight worry is that if he is already clipping his 1700 it's not going to make that much more noise ... clipping is the danger, more drivers are lost to clipped low power amps than being overdriven by big amps.

In the end, it all depends on just how much bass you need I guess ... people used to be quite happy with an XP3000 on bass duty ...  a 5K would drive them fully, but if you can live with less bass, then the 3000H won't be a bad result at all.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slipshod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2020 at 1:34pm
Thanks for all the help guys :) 

So the guy selling the xp3k i coming to run it on my subs later, this morning I got the rig out and discovered a few things. 

I tried to bi amp the mids/highs the mids, even when only 1 was connected with the power turned down to 0 was clipping hard and making cracking noise, I tried a few configs of this, swapping cables, swapping amps, running 1m, 1h off 1 amp etc...basically the mids on both speakers clip instantly...I thought this was the KM1700s not being powerful enough so I plugged 1 sub into each channel and I can get a shit ton of bass out of them even with the Behringer amp...

So what's going on with my mids, Are the drivers blown?
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