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Amp limiters... why cant i...?

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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 December 2018 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

What i was hoping for it my guess was right, was to come up with a thread people can use as reference so they can grab their multimeter once the driver is warmed up, knock up as patch lead (if they want,  i think it makes sense) they can plug in between the cable and the cab, set limiters to max, read the voltage and reduce the limiter until its reading what they need.  

 If its viable it seems a simple solution compared to the reams and reams and hundreds of confused posts on this forum and others on calculating it. 

Im sure this method has issues, but if it works its got to be easier!


The big issue with your method is it's only really applicable to low frequency drivers that can handle the full output of the amp. What if you're powering a 100w compression driver with a 350w or 500w amp, then you can't just let it blast away while you dick with measurements you need to have a limiter setting in place that is at least in the right ballpark before the driver is ever attached. Like it or not there will always be some math involved.

I guess so, but i was also thinking of setting the limiter to its highest limit seeing then dialling back from there rather than the other way around. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 December 2018 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:


And - of course, the follow up question should be what drivers do you have? And loaded into what? And what kind of material will it be playing?

It will all influence how you need to set up the system, ie for live music, with more dynamics, you can 'loosen up' on the limiting, whereas playing highly compressed muzak, you need to be a bit more conservative, ie limit earlier in order to make sure that the average power to your speakers doesn´t pass the thermal limits, etc.


And for multimeter advice, look no further:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh1n_ELmpFI

LOL LOL LOL


Double bms 15n630 in 180 litre boxes tuned to 41 hz

Music is all pre recorded but covers reggae, dubsteb, charts stuff, blues, rock amongst others.   A fairly wide spread. 

By how much do you loosen/tighten the limiter settings then?
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2018 at 5:09am
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

 

Double bms 15n630 in 180 litre boxes tuned to 41 hz

Music is all pre recorded but covers reggae, dubsteb, charts stuff, blues, rock amongst others.   A fairly wide spread. 

By how much do you loosen/tighten the limiter settings then?

Unless someone is using the same box with the same tuning in addition to the same loudspeaker, no one can give a clear cut answer. You have a custom design which means you will have a custom setting. 

The music is not the problem as the majority sound systems need to reproduce a wide variety of music. The question is how conscientious are you when playing your system? 

As I mentioned in a previous post...


Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

How precise the limiting needs to be reflects the person at the controls.

 

Most of the time everything needs to be calculated for the person at the controls can be very heavy handed on the faders. So brick wall limiting is the only solution. This is very important when renting out your kit and, those who are experiencing their first sound system.

 

Those that are more conscientious on not over driving their system and fall within the single user realm can be easy going applying limiters. A little clipping once in a while won’t lead to having their loudspeakers reconed as they tend to reduce the gains instantly when clipping occurs.

 

Then there are very small group of individuals as myself that use no limiters whatsoever and devise other means of voltage restrictions to regulate the output. This usually stems from literally monitoring everything at all times in addition to having certain components distort (upstream) giving one the impression the system is operating at full tilt (down stream) when it is not if/when required.   

 

Some users are not content until they hear heavy distortion. Some users are aiming for the cleanest sound as possible and would sacrifice volume for very low distortion. And there are others that have tons of headroom at their disposal and use the extra power for momentary peaks.

 

Best Regards,


Where do you stand under the above scenario? 




Best Regards, 

Elliot Thompson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2018 at 7:58am
Just wondering, Why would you set your amps to 11 o'clock?

Crank them suckers up to full power, and control it all from your processor or Xover unit.
Unless your are running 10kw amp on a 100watt HF driver.. 😝
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2018 at 9:09am
not eleven o'clock... to 11!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2018 at 12:13pm
"By how much do you loosen/tighten the limiter settings then?"

By changing your paramaters: Threshold, Ratio, Attack, Release, etc - depending on the unit you have.

The DCX has it´s 'normal' limiters - and also the Dynamic Eq, which can be used to limit a band of frequencies, etc. Very useful.  Smile


Earplugs Are For Wimps!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2018 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

not eleven o'clock... to 11!





Classic. Love that movie!

LOL LOL LOL Clap LOL LOL LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2018 at 3:52pm
Fluke - pah, wimps!

If I can't measure it with my 1920's Wheatstone Bridge "meter", it can't be measured.




I'll get my coat...

(I got a class T Shirt for Christmas, legend reads:
"I'm an engineer. To save time, let's assume I am never wrong.")
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2018 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

Fluke - pah, wimps!

If I can't measure it with my 1920's Wheatstone Bridge "meter", it can't be measured.




I'll get my coat...

(I got a class T Shirt for Christmas, legend reads:
"I'm an engineer. To save time, let's assume I am never wrong.")


When I was a kid, there was one electrician in the neighbourhood who used to check if a circuit was 'Live' by sticking a finger on it! Then I found out that he had a prosthetic hand!  LOL LOL LOL

 
Earplugs Are For Wimps!
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