Speakerplans.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > General Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Any good for use on low bass ?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Any good for use on low bass ?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
JonB67 View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 22 April 2016
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2021 at 3:17pm
Bear in mind that if you use a more powerful driver you could do something like tony wilkes q15 (tony sadly passed away a few years ago but the plans are still available from bee on this forum) which used a b6 alignment and a stack of eq to get a decent response from a tiny cabinet.


I post this as plywood is heavy and so a box that small will be light enough to offset the weight of a bigger magnet several times over.  

He also did a q12. 


Edited by JonB67 - 23 February 2021 at 3:18pm
Back to Top
slaz View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 27 November 2009
Location: London E2
Status: Offline
Points: 2621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2021 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

Bear in mind that if you use a more powerful driver you could do something like tony wilkes q15 (tony sadly passed away a few years ago but the plans are still available from bee on this forum) which used a b6 alignment and a stack of eq to get a decent response from a tiny cabinet.


I post this as plywood is heavy and so a box that small will be light enough to offset the weight of a bigger magnet several times over.  

He also did a q12. 


Yeah I met Tony once at a sound system shoot-out (in a church in Hackney !!) - lovely unassuming fella .... and funnily enough I kinda had something of that ilk in mind - but I wasn't really aware of the need for such heavy EQ (and corresponding amplifier headroom).

Plywood - well I don't doubt what you're saying about that, but I will NOT be using plywood.
Prospective material is a specialised aluminium honeycomb faced with fibre glass - hellish expensive stuff, but I happen to have some (recycled) already. Much lighter than plywood.
Not sure how it'll behave as a speaker enclosure (well I'd actually use a plywood baffle with the other 5 panels from the composite stuff) .... one way to find out. Dunno if anyone's tried it ...
Almost sure it wouldn't hack it for being chucked in the back of a transit time and again, but thats not my intended use.




Edited by slaz - 24 February 2021 at 3:02pm
REMEMBER....POLITICIANS AND DIAPERS SHOULD BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON
Back to Top
slaz View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 27 November 2009
Location: London E2
Status: Offline
Points: 2621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2021 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by studio45 studio45 wrote:

If SPL is not a priority, have you considered a low-tuned reflex with a low FS, low powered, rubber surround driver (or multiple) 
Eg something like the Beyma 12BR70 will absolutely wobble out that lowest octave, but only at "loud Hifi" levels. It's got a tiny magnet. I bet two of them only weigh as much as that 15. 
Personally I've just given up on the idea of bass below 60Hz on my mobile rig, it's just too much effort!


Well yeah I tried to look into that a bit. I actually have a bunch of hi-fi 8" woofers - would play quite low methinks - but would need at least 4 I reckon to match a 15" for cone area. Box would wind up quite big I think.

The 12BR70 - wobbling out :-) .... do I get the feeling you think it'll have crappy cone control ? Muddy vwoom vwoom ? Thats NOT what I want :-) Nice well-defined bass lines around here thanks very much :-)

Personally I've just given up on the idea of bass below 60Hz on my mobile rig, it's just too much effort!

Yeah - know what you mean. Even with a super-lightweight box, it's still gonna at least double the size and weight of my rig - will need extra battery, extra amplifier, quite possibly a DSP or analogue Xover, bunch of extra cables, extra trolley .... eck. All for an extra 25-30Hz !!

TBH, most of the "punters" (well they're not paying money) seem to like it as is. It does sound miles, miles better than any of the cheapy Chinese plastic things they're used to hearing around the place. I'm the only one really wanting/missing the bass extension :-)

REMEMBER....POLITICIANS AND DIAPERS SHOULD BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON
Back to Top
Earplug View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 03 January 2012
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 6434
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2021 at 4:51pm
"Almost sure it wouldn't hack it for being chucked in the back of a transit time and again, but thats not my intended use."

What about gluing on a thin veneer of 4mm/6mm ply? That will make it far more robust, easier to rivet extrusion/edging & not add too much weight!   Smile
Earplugs Are For Wimps!
Back to Top
Peter Jan View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc
Avatar

Joined: 16 December 2008
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 976
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2021 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by slaz slaz wrote:

Not sure how it'll behave as a speaker enclosure (well I'd actually use a plywood baffle with the other 5 panels from the composite stuff) .... one way to find out. Dunno if anyone's tried it ...


Kinda sorta... used 1 cm aluminum honeycomb panels for things like access panels in horncabs. Properly stiff and all that, but it was way too difficult to glue/bolt/... together as in a complete cabinet. Great for "loose" parts though.
To save weight I tend to make (sub)bass cabinets in 10/12/15 mm birch ply and brace a lot more than you normally would. Triangels in corners, small ribs on every panel, connections between left-right, top-bottom, etc.. and glue/screw together in the middle of the cabinet, where connection ribs cross each other in all dimensions. Always amazed how "thin" you can go with the outside panels and end up with a seriously stiff box. It's a lot more labour, but it works out real fine.


Back to Top
KaphaSound View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 22 July 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KaphaSound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2021 at 6:55am
Originally posted by slaz slaz wrote:



Yeah - know what you mean. Even with a super-lightweight box, it's still gonna at least double the size and weight of my rig - will need extra battery, extra amplifier, quite possibly a DSP or analogue Xover, bunch of extra cables, extra trolley .... eck. All for an extra 25-30Hz !!

TBH, most of the "punters" (well they're not paying money) seem to like it as is. It does sound miles, miles better than any of the cheapy Chinese plastic things they're used to hearing around the place. I'm the only one really wanting/missing the bass extension :-)


Those bottom 30hz are a whole octave! And imo end up being a real differentiator between average typical venue sound and a complete system. 15s can definitely be used to push that weight like Danley’s new BC215 series but it is trickier and often times an 18 will be best. Agree on downsizing though to save weight/backs/space
Back to Top
KaphaSound View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 22 July 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KaphaSound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2021 at 6:55am
Woops posted twice

Edited by KaphaSound - 25 February 2021 at 6:57am
Back to Top
Meat Substitute View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 10 July 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meat Substitute Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2021 at 8:04am
BMS have some stonking small cab drivers. For example my 18s only require 130l which is more like a 15" enclosure. Some of the new B&Cs like BG range seem to do this too.

For super compact low and light the BMS 12n630 would be where I'd go. Solid little driver that. I think Tony Wilkes was getting decent performance at only 40l or so. I did something similar with the ciare 12.00SW which was good fun but that was a heavy little bugger so it wouldn't fit your brief.

The 15CL does look great value and super light but as others have said I don't think its gonna do what you want.


Back to Top
DMorison View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 14 March 2007
Location: Aberdeen
Status: Offline
Points: 1438
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMorison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2021 at 4:06pm
Hmmm.

Nobody's posted any sims, in 1.5pages of replies? Poor show.

Anyway, whether it'll be loud (& deep) enough depends entirely on you I'm afraid. It will certainly be capable of producing more output than your Maxx4 down low, but it might not be enough to be worth it. If I understand you correctly, you're going to be limited by both amp power and by total cabinet size if you want to use those Hexalite panels from your other post.

If you want to keep to the approx size of the Beyma cab you used as an example previously, that gives you only about 90 litres net internal volume. You do have enough panel area to go a bit bigger (assuming the panels are decently straight and you don't have to trim them for ragged edges etc); I think you can get to about 110 litres net mostly by deepening the cab, which won't add too much weight.

Herewith the 15CL76 in each cab size, alongside the 12HPL64-4 as a rough guide to what your Maxx4 may be doing (use that for the SPL only, obviously I don't know the exact box size & tuning to predict its exact LF behaviour). 
Also, I've assumed it's one of the Bassface 4.1 models you have, I think I remember that from a previous thread. That limits you to about 33Volts bridged into 8 ohms or 27 Volts bridged into 4 ohms, which are the values I've used here. The 110 litre option has the attraction that it can use 2 of the 100mm dia ports that Blue Aran sell without needing to faff about cutting them to a different length (or building in a shelf vent etc). The 90 litre option doesn't fall so conveniently unless you wanted to tune it a bit higher, which would increase its max spl by about a dB but also raise its LF cutoff.


One thing to bear in mind, if you were to decide it might be worth investing in a bigger amp in the future, this driver could go about 5dB louder before reaching XVar which *might* be enough to sway the choice. You'd be best to build the box with bigger ports from the start if you were going to do this - no point buying the bigger amp then being disappointed at noisy or inefficient ports after all.

HTH,
David.
Back to Top
Peter Jan View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc
Avatar

Joined: 16 December 2008
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 976
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2021 at 7:45pm
This would be my take on it :
12N630 in a BP6 config and tuned so it complements your current cabs, without the need for a crossover (or just a lowcut).

https://app.photobucket.com/u/Peter_Jan/p/d73cfb1d-7e5f-47b2-9843-dbf3e549365c

Edited by Peter Jan - 26 February 2021 at 7:50pm
Back to Top
infrasound View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 13 May 2011
Location: Brizzle
Status: Offline
Points: 2238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote infrasound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2021 at 7:47pm
Nice one David

Smaller driver such as 12CL64 (4r) may be worth a look too, given the low power available.

F10 will be lower , but SPL will suffer slightly too.

Back to Top
DMorison View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 14 March 2007
Location: Aberdeen
Status: Offline
Points: 1438
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMorison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2021 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by Peter Jan Peter Jan wrote:

This would be my take on it :
12N630 in a BP6 config and tuned so it complements your current cabs, without the need for a crossover (or just a lowcut).

https://app.photobucket.com/u/Peter_Jan/p/d73cfb1d-7e5f-47b2-9843-dbf3e549365c

Undoubtedly a higher quality driver than the B&C CL series, and nice & compact, but still 4-5dB less output than the 15CL76 over most of the bandwidth. Would be viable if the OP were happy to buy a bigger amp though, as it has plenty excursion available.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.