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Any good for use on low bass ?

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slaz View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 February 2021 at 10:51pm
Hi - hoping for a bit of input from the guys who can look at T/S params and assess how they'll do a certain job .... ( I broadly understand individual params, but I don't have the knowledge/experience to make a judgement just on the figures).

The driver in question is the B&C 15CL76

http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=BAC15CL76&browsemode=manufacturer

The attraction to me is the weight :-)
The context for wanting it is here ...


So - I need a driver just for bottom octave really (lets say 40--80) as the FBT Maxx 4 12" box above plays very well down to about 70. I'm not toally sure what 12" driver the Maxx 4 uses - could very well be a 12NDL76 (its definitely a B&C  neo driver with a 76mm VC).

Here's the B&C T/S params for the 15CL76 :-

Parameters


  • Fs 42 Hz
  • Re 5.1 Ω
  • Qes 0.34
  • Qms 7.9
  • Qts 0.33
  • Vas 135.0 dm3 (4.8 ft3)
  • Sd 855.0 cm2 (132.5 in2)
  • η₀ 2.9 %
  • Xmax 7.0 mm
  • Xvar 8.5 mm
  • Mms 108 g
  • Bl 21.0 Txm
  • Le 1.3 mH
  • EBP 123 Hz
Power handling is hardly an issue - it won't get more than about 200W or so (battery power setup).

So my question is .... will the 15CL76 be able to do an adequate job as a "sub" driver ? I get the impression its designed really for 2-way boxes (maybe stage wedges etc.)
I'm not sure how much depends on the driver vs. how much depends on the box tuning ....

I would put it in a compact reflex box - not aiming to play very low ... 45Hz would be good. Just needed to fill somewhat in below the Maxx 4.

TIA



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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2021 at 11:24pm
40 Hertz is too generous. This speaker's Sound Pressure Level will be reduced significantly below 60 Hertz.
For a stage monitor, 60 Hertz is fine. The loudspeaker's voice coil cannot generate anything below 60 Hertz with great importance.

Best Regards, 




Edited by Elliot Thompson - 22 February 2021 at 11:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lickweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2021 at 1:50am
fbt maxx4 its 12hpl64 , 2,5" vc
http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VECTORDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2021 at 10:45am
Use 18 for sub................

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slaz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2021 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by VECTORDJ VECTORDJ wrote:

Use 18 for sub................



Erm - well thanks for replying .... but its not very useful. I have a 18" driver - which I could make a reflex box for - but until medicine has found a way to reverse ageing, found a way to permanently cure my back problems, and I've moved house to somewhere with ground-level storage, it would sit there doing nothing for all eternity.

I need a lightweight driver for a ultra-lightweight enclosure. Can be low power handling. The requirements are quite different to most - the context is in the in the other thread I linked.


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slaz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2021 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by lickweed lickweed wrote:

fbt maxx4 its 12hpl64 , 2,5" vc


Ah - OK - thanks for correcting that.
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2021 at 1:23pm
Try exploring RCF Drivers. They tend to offer better options than B&C in 15 - inch drivers capable of delivering 40 Hz.

Best Regards,  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2021 at 1:30pm
.

Edited by JonB67 - 23 February 2021 at 1:33pm
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slaz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2021 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

40 Hertz is too generous. This speaker's Sound Pressure Level will be reduced significantly below 60 Hertz.
For a stage monitor, 60 Hertz is fine. The loudspeaker's voice coil cannot generate anything below 60 Hertz with great importance.

Best Regards, 




Yeah well I thought this might be the case. OTH - I'm not expecting bass with any great authority - just a "taste of bass" ..... so I guess essentially I'm looking for something that can play a fair bit lower than 70Hz - down to about 45Hz or so.
Thing is - it also needs to be lightweight - neo motor preferably ...

Beyma 15P80Nd looks quite good - but its too expensive, and not particularly light (6Kg).

I'm not sure if such a thing really exists.

Does a lowish Fs indicate (broadly) suitability for bass ?

Eminence Beta15 looks like a possible also - weighs 4Kg.
Stated sensivity of 98db - but what about in the 40-80 passband ? Spec says "useable" response down to 45Hz - which would be OK for me. Weedy looking motor and a 2" VC.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2021 at 1:33pm
15CL76 is will do solid lows down to 40 Hz in a big(-isch) box, say 200 liter or so. Given the moderate power, you won't run into Xmax trouble like that, but 200 liter is hardly compact.
Look for low Vas speakers. Certainly not the only parameter dictating smaller cabs, but it's a start. Low Fs can be an indicator too.
Eminence Beta 15 is not the right speaker for you needs, way to high Vas and that would make a +500 liter cab to get the needed response of let's say 40-70 Hz. It would work very well, but VERY big too.




Edited by Peter Jan - 23 February 2021 at 1:50pm
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studio45 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote studio45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2021 at 2:01pm
If SPL is not a priority, have you considered a low-tuned reflex with a low FS, low powered, rubber surround driver (or multiple) 
Eg something like the Beyma 12BR70 will absolutely wobble out that lowest octave, but only at "loud Hifi" levels. It's got a tiny magnet. I bet two of them only weigh as much as that 15. 
Personally I've just given up on the idea of bass below 60Hz on my mobile rig, it's just too much effort!
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2021 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by slaz slaz wrote:

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

40 Hertz is too generous. This speaker's Sound Pressure Level will be reduced significantly below 60 Hertz.
For a stage monitor, 60 Hertz is fine. The loudspeaker's voice coil cannot generate anything below 60 Hertz with great importance.

Best Regards, 




Yeah well I thought this might be the case. OTH - I'm not expecting bass with any great authority - just a "taste of bass" ..... so I guess essentially I'm looking for something that can play a fair bit lower than 70Hz - down to about 45Hz or so.
Thing is - it also needs to be lightweight - neo motor preferably ...

Beyma 15P80Nd looks quite good - but its too expensive, and not particularly light (6Kg).

I'm not sure if such a thing really exists.

Does a lowish Fs indicate (broadly) suitability for bass ?

Eminence Beta15 looks like a possible also - weighs 4Kg.
Stated sensivity of 98db - but what about in the 40-80 passband ? Spec says "useable" response down to 45Hz - which would be OK for me. Weedy looking motor and a 2" VC.



Eminence will give you lots of options in terms of 15 inch drivers however, the response curve will not be flat due to Eminence preferring a reasonable sized cabinet. You could always add a hefty dose of wadding to tame the over bearing 60 – 80 Hz under the given circumstances.


Honesty, for the power you have to drive the loudspeaker, the cabinet size restraints in addition to, the 45 Hertz objective, I would explore 12 inch options from Eminence. Possibly the Beta 12. You should get 50 Hertz out of a 90 Litre box. A +6dB boost @ 50 Hz should get – 3 dB @ 40 Hz.


It is a 250 watt RMS loudspeaker which, will be a lot easier to drive on a 200 watt amplifier than, a modern-day 15 inch driver that needs 3 times the power just to move.


You can always contact Eminence and tell them your requirements and, they will find the best driver for your needs if you must have a 15 inch driver.


Best Regards,





Edited by Elliot Thompson - 23 February 2021 at 2:30pm
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