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band pass subs with 1850s

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pfly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pfly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 3:02pm
I'd like to design a box that had the same frontal dimensions as 1850. Depth could slightly more if needed. 2x18" or 2x21" would be my starting point. -3dB around 25Hz. one of these with two 1850 horns on top could make nice stack.

Toasty how does Arc X + VLF work in real life? Of course mostly it will sit there doing not that much but does it compliment the smaller bass well?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 3:09pm
It was an odd sub, had a similar effect to Incubus Sub when playing just super low notes - not much else like it. Felt like you were being physically pushed around, but without much actual noise being present. I did like it but it was too big, power hungry, and heavy to be worthwhile adding to stock. Seems most people felt the same way as it didn't have a long run.

I believe one person owns all of the ones ever made (4 I believe?) now and are very happy with them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by pfly pfly wrote:

I'd like to design a box that had the same frontal dimensions as 1850. Depth could slightly more if needed. 2x18" or 2x21" would be my starting point. -3dB around 25Hz. one of these with two 1850 horns on top could make nice stack.

It's not hard to come up with a double 18, even double 21 cab, the size of 1850 horn, but as said, you'll need a lot of them and give them very serious power. Wanna create a monster.... gotta feed it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pfly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 5:11pm
The point would be to make it to have reaaaally narrow and "one notey" tuning to gain efficiency.

Yes, power would be needed but it's relatively cheap now.

Also I'd be willing to make compromise. Having really loud and efficient ~50-150hz and 10dB lower 25-50hz  is nicer than to have just 50-150hz. The perception of sub bass in general public's ears would make it easier to get away with such config. Also if 1850 horns were matched to infra bass box's level, it would make 1850s sound quite clean and controlled since they would be well within their comfort zone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b grade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 5:18pm
I know they will be power hungry. I know they will be big, but they will not be nearly as big as a horn that could do what I want. The 1850 is a great audible bass speaker, but I just think I end up overprocessing them trying to attenuate 100hz so you can hear the 48hz. With a dedicated sub, I could let the 1850 sing the bass, and not try to force it to behave in a way that is just not in its nature. Trying to get more sub out of the 1850s is dangerous for the drivers too, so doing something like this could give them a longer cone life. I don't need to be flat in the sub area to the rest of the volume. I just need something that does not need a steep HPF at 50ish hz so that the bottom end curves off a little more gracefully.

Edited by b grade - 07 May 2015 at 5:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b grade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 5:22pm
I did briefly consider building half berthas with extensions, but my spine used its power of veto.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by b grade b grade wrote:

I know they will be power hungry. I know they will be big, but they will not be nearly as big as a horn that could do what I want. The 1850 is a great audible bass speaker, but I just think I end up overprocessing them trying to attenuate 100hz so you can hear the 48hz. With a dedicated sub, I could let the 1850 sing the bass, and not try to force it to behave in a way that is just not in its nature. Trying to get more sub out of the 1850s is dangerous for the drivers too, so doing something like this could give them a longer cone life. I don't need to be flat in the sub area to the rest of the volume. I just need something that does not need a steep HPF at 50ish hz so that the bottom end curves off a little more gracefully.


Are you sure? If you use them in blocks of four almost all of the time, things like EM Quake and Psyco Sub take up not much more volume than an 1850 Horn and do 30Hz with ease.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b grade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 6:40pm
I just kind of worry about running horns hard right at the cutoff. I am not saying that they can't do it, just that it always seems like a very dramatic low pass has to be put on the top to prevent the midbass from overwhelming the sub. The band pass, designed correctly will be efficient right where I want it instead of way above my desired band.

Also, I don't really want to give up on my 1850s for a different bass horn. I like how they sound, just they are not made for much under 50hz.

I will likely end up just making reflex, but for whatever reason, I always feel more attracted to boxes that do a little more accoustic magic than standard bass reflex boxes. I really need to concentrate a little on just worrying about the sound quality and less on the fun woodworking project. I don't think I am alone here in this affliction though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 8:06pm
EQ the midbass down?
It's everything, not everythink!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b grade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 8:19pm
I do, but the lower you play them the quieter they sound, and if you compensate by turning up the level for the band, you run out of amp headroom fast. Basically sacrificing the natural efficiency of the horn design to mimic another type of speaker. That can't be the most logical use. I think I can use the 1850s like a woofer, and the subs more like how you would use one in a home theater setup, placed creatively for best dramatic effect. Basically, if everything is working properly a real sub should just melt into the experience, but if you turn it off, you will miss it a lot I think.

Edited by b grade - 07 May 2015 at 8:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pfly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 10:54pm
I once measured stack of four 1850 horns. -3dB @ 43hz. +-3dB 43hz-200hz. No peaks in upper range either.

Having less than four in a stack resulted in loss of sensitivity between 40 to 70hz or so. With single box there was difference of almost 10dB between 60hz and 120hz, it was pretty much like a shelving filter.


Edited by pfly - 07 May 2015 at 10:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2015 at 10:20pm
We did a triple chambered 2 x 18" using JBL 2241 drivers it was very very low (below 30hz) the cab from memory was 4ft high about 20" wide and about 3 feet deep there was no drawing for it but I sold them to a member on here unloaded and I know up until last year he hadn't used them (but still had them) it may be worth sending him a pm to see if he'd do a drawing of them they were a very simple cab with all straight cuts.
He hasn't been on here since last April according to his profile but it may be worth a try
http://forum.speakerplans.com/member_profile.asp?PF=3211
Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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