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band pass subs with 1850s

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b grade View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b grade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2015 at 12:52am
I am going to try making my own design most likely unless I decide to just build more 1850s.

have been kicking around some simulations and I think I am going to try to build at least a prototype bp6 to see what it does. If I love it, then I will bleed the bank.
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b grade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2015 at 5:08pm
Thanks to all who had input on this post. 

I have decided to go cautiously, and make sure I understand the concepts for making a band pass sub before spending big money. I made a little car sub to start. Not worthy of posting the build pics. It is a quick dirty job. Still it is solidly built. I expect that it will be fun in the car whether or not I proceed further for my pa. about 60 liters with a pass band from about 35hz to about 70hz with a medium cheapish auto sub driver, which would not be expensive if I smoosh it (though I hope to not). I don't expect a miracle or anything, but I should be able to see how close my build comes to my sim.

If I do anything serious, I will try to post some pics and observations as to the success of the setup.


Edited by b grade - 10 May 2015 at 5:09pm
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b grade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2015 at 5:02pm
So this is the first bandpass sub I have ever built or had at my own control, and so far I love it. the little guy I made for the car is definitely not PA kit (110 db max), but the way it works with the "full range" stock speakers is similar to what I hope to do with the PA. Instead of getting quieter as the notes drop into the 40s and 30s, it just drops right down happily. Below 25hz and above 75 hz, a reflex would do better, but in the pass band, it just kills. Also, I would observe that it sounds like a sub even if you give it a full freq spectrum. A reflex would just get ugly as it tries to sound like a full range. This would be a bad thing if you don't like how it sounds because processing the eq does little to change the characteristics in any benificial way, but on the other hand, I love how it sounds and it is working very successfully with just crossover hpf for protection and LPF so it does not waste energy making sounds I can not hear coming from the vents. There is no audible harmonic distortion though I am only going by ear and not by any measurement.
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Old Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2015 at 5:27pm
Lets have a look at ya' box then (dont be shy, we all love boxes... no matter how ugly) iv got a spare 10" and 8" mtx sub knocking around and could do with a little car project as my t-line sub im 'trying' to build is proving to be a tad on the large size, even for an 8"! Lol

If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b grade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2015 at 9:16pm
Alrighty, here ya go. :) Quick dirty BP6. Before anyone criticizes, it was an experiment prototype, with no intention of making more so certain niceties were forgone, such as any paint prep or battens on the access panel or rebated speakons. Just easy math and small panels requiring very little reinforcement. 3/4 mdf (except for where I ran out of scrap and used one panel of mystery ply- on the side I chose not to photo ;) )
Box is18.9 Liters in the top tuned to 54.55hz and rear is 35 Liters tuned to 25.11hz. F3 pass band is 28 hz to 89hz. Driver is JL Aaudio 10xv2-4. I used 5.1 cm inner diameter PVC for the vents. I aimed for a bottom heavy (as opposed to flat ) response. It is not one notey at all, but it does get smoothly louder when the bass drops really low. There is a full octave of happy sounding bass notes though. Currently I am using no eq on the bass, and it sounds nice. I do use the crossover though. Currently I have the HPF higher than I want it, because the lowest my car set up will go is 40hz, and I would not like to run without any HPF. The low pass is at like 80.

Just to be clear, this design was very much tuned for the specific cheapo sub driver, and is unlikely to sound the same with another driver, but it is conceivable that it could be much better. My recommendation is to sim and design one for your driver. I used WinIsd. My box gain is a little high for the lower chamber, about 4 db, and I think 3 db is where the mechanical risks are supposed to be on the increase.


Edited by b grade - 12 May 2015 at 9:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bitSmasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2015 at 12:29am
Has your listening been in-car? Taken in to account "cabin gain" with the design?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2015 at 2:18am
Thats a pretty little prototype.

A 10" driver ya say?..... could i pinch the design as i have a spare 10" knocking around as the box it is currently in was poop.

If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b grade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2015 at 2:57am
Car listening only. There is definitely cabin gain, but the other subs I have had in there had the same advantage. Right now I am liking the new box sound, but I expect there is a gap in the mid bass of the frequency spectrum right now because the stock speakers don't play low nicely.....

....which (to get back to topic for this forum section), makes me think I can get better pro grade driver in a real box size will play excellently with my 1850s run almost exactly how I run them now. I get the best results with drivers with medium Q, low fs, low vas etc.

Mini mad, I will totally give you the design but I bet you could do just as well for your driver. They are really t/s parameter sensitive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2015 at 4:07am
Im very sorry for the tangent... lets have a play anyway. Cheers.

If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b grade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2015 at 4:22am
I wasn't mad or anything, I just don't want to be the dude in the 1850 section posting about the entire wrong type of box so I tied it back in. I will pm you re the plans, I need to clean them up a tad.

Edited by b grade - 13 May 2015 at 4:25am
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b grade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2015 at 4:01pm
Just as an update, I have ordered drivers to make 4 bp6s. My goal for the project is to extend the bass frequency down to about 30 hz, at a reasonable price and in a reasonable size. I want the driver to be something easily replaceable, preferably domestic (I am in the states so that means eminence mostly) and moderately inexpensive, but still be a fitting driver.  According to my sims in my imaginary enclosure, I can achieve acceptable results using a definimax 4018LF. Of course I simmed better drivers, and lots of them, but the output per dollar equation was best for the definimax. According to my simulations I can put about 700 watts in before I hit xmax in the passband. With 4 of them I should get about 135db at 40hz and f3s of 30 hz and about 97hz. This should add a resonant bump to the low end of my overall frequency response in concert with the 1850s. The enclosure will be less than 300 liters total iirc.

My secondary goal is to make it so that when you remove the access panel, the rear chamber becomes a standard bass reflex design. F3 in that mode will be 35hz. Front chamber will become an exaggeratedly recessed baffle. The reflex mode is not a particularly awesome reflex box, but the versatility may come in handy for smaller gigs when I don't want to bring the 1850s. According to sims, in reflex mode, I should reduce power by about 100 watts without the double loading of the cone.

If it works out, I will start a thread for the new project.
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