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bass box pro 6 helps

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_Natty_ View Drop Down
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    Posted: 31 August 2018 at 5:34pm
i needs some helps to understand where I wrong...

why it give me allways very little box volume that wont fit speaker and vents?

is it the wrong speakers?
 if I increase the volume the fb and f3 change a lot from what id like...
what is the right order to have a box tuned at 53 or 106hz with my 12mh32 b&c speaker?

If I check"desidered f3" it give me back errors that is too small or too large!

thanks
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odc04r View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2018 at 12:13pm
Double and triple check all the units in your TS parameters for a start.

Maybe post a screenshot of your input parameters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bitSmasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2018 at 2:08pm
Arrogant answer: learn HornResponse - it's very effective even for simple sealed and vented boxes...
Granted it won't give you suggested designs, but has the ability to quickly play with plenty of options
"Battery Acid Sound System" blog hopefully happening in 2017
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMorison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2018 at 7:13pm
12MH32 is really more optimised for horn loading - EBP of 265 is a bit of a giveaway.
You won't get it to stay flat in a vented box unless you accept that it will be a tiny box tuned really high.
If you're willing to use an EQ'd alignment, you could look at "Extended Bass Shelf" options - I'd expect BB6Pro to be able to model those.
The big trade off with those is that the EQ boost that is required to get the lows/low-mids back to flat eats into your power handling and excursion a lot.
HTH,
David


Edited by DMorison - 01 September 2018 at 7:16pm
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_Natty_ View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Natty_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2018 at 2:53pm
Hi to all, thanks for all replies.

All is based on wrong choice and not wasting money allready spent! lol
I need to load 4 speakers asap, 21september in session...so not a joke for me!

goal: playing 150/1khz and tomorrow mornig (monday) going to cuts wood at carpenter workshop!
And keep my chronic insecurity down lol


I starting studing bass box pro help and ive seen how to increase the volume for fitting port and keep the tuning freq in a right "part".
To me a good tuning freq for the box could be something around 106hz, I wrong?

The problem is that im so in hurry now, i need to play very soon, and after months of sims of hornresp withou spotting a good option (no 120cm horn, or big big horn) I was so close to change the speaker, even if bought allready 2. But before give it up I made a measurement with ARTA, and I found that those driver in free air are far from what I need if they play as single no good results, if I couple them the "bass part" is starting to be good... some deep but i think that we can easy solve it by eq. so before wasting 2 speakers. I move to the simplest thing in my mind a little single reflex box... but agains problems, as you told is not the right speaker for reflex loading...
not at least it like to say that even in free air if u play some music through it they play so sweet!!!


all suggested design by bb6 are around 15/20l that give me a very tiny box where almost fit the speaker that is 13,3cm deep with good f3 and fb but ports far to be possible... even if split ports in 2 or 4 reducing port size...allwayse too long
next step is sims it in very large box up to 51L and now things works but im afraid about box size.
what do you suggest me?


one typical example small box:

vents impossible to fit in.




secon option midvolume:

  No. of Vents = 2
    Vent shape = round
    Vent ends = one flush
    Dv =  152, mm
    Lv =  110,8 mm



third option large volume:

-vents are 1 diameter 12,92cm but Dv to small! so i think this design not possible




For all these sims no probs in phase or cone desplacement!

offtopic1:
wich are good value of Ql? bb6 suggest me allways .7 but another friend told me with no explanation to put it to 20....

offtopic2:
tonite i sims a very small horn (35cm) with a reflex... and looks good to me, until i move to phase window, that show me a very big mess. path are equal to 0. I was thinking to put it on the back side of the speaker chamber. is it possible? how can we deal with the messy phase?

I can deal with phase adjustment and time alig and eq from my processor.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatfreddiescat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2018 at 2:26pm
If only to be used as a mid then a sealed box may be an option designes for a 2nd order butterworth response, may be worth a look, 2nd order butterworth has a Q of 0.707, overlaid with a 2nd order butterworth filter on the LMS you will end up with a 4th order LR filter acoustically.

Edit:

Scrub above as not possible to get down to 150Hz with a sealed box - just modeled it in HR.
If building it as a reflex of 20L for mid hi use then port tuning could be low say at Fs of driver, port output would be small when hipass filter is used at 150Hz so port area could be made very small so should fit the box, then use EQ in lms to get a flat response down to say 75Hz and use a LR24 at 150Hz.






Edited by fatfreddiescat - 03 September 2018 at 3:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2018 at 3:14pm
Your phase graph looks pretty normal to me, the straight lines are 2Pi phase shifts and the graph wrapping around.

A Q value of 20 is pretty much nonsense, I fear your friend may have misunderstood something down the road.

I also agree with previous posters who have suggested this looks a lot like a potential horn driver. But it could also be a sealed box. As it is already very sensitive (if you trust the 101dB from manufacturer figure) then perhaps not much point in hornloading further.

If you were to stick it in a sealed box of 10L then you'd end up with total Q of 0.5, Fs of 140Hz. Roll off under this will be slower than a ported box.

Or if you went for a 5L box then Fs would be ~200Hz and Q=0.7. This is the flattest response over bandwidth at the expense of some low end response.

Maybe try simulating those sealed boxes and see if you like the results/check I did not balls the maths up. For midrange only they should do the trick. And with 101db sensitivity they will be pretty loud to boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Natty_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2018 at 5:22pm
this is the horn part sims: http://forum.speakerplans.com/should-i-build-this-one_topic102493.html
the problem about the horn is just about my fear of wasting cash/time with not such good results...
its my first horn project from schratch....

so ive tried to reflex for simplified things but as we said here not so good for reflex loading...

I've tried several sims on different programs about a closed box, with the suggested q 0.7 but the result is not so good.

so im stuck on a loop from too long!

only a recording session with ARTA give me some hopes, due the good response when u coupling more than 1 driver together!




Edited by _Natty_ - 03 September 2018 at 5:44pm
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odc04r View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2018 at 7:57pm
Thing is if you're wanting this as a 150Hz and upwards box that integrates to subs under it, you don't really want to port it imo. It'll quite possibly make properly integrating to the subs under harder due to the additional port output. A horn is a possibility, but like you say not the easiest things to design well if you've never attempted one before.  

This is a sim of the driver in 10L box, half space, 400W. Fc is 150Hz and it's about 5db down there compared to centre of passband (121dB). Add 12dB to this for going up to 4 enclosures (4xpower/drivers) and you will be seeing ~130dB for a set of 4 cabs. Ofc there will be power compression and all sorts of non ideal effects to account for in the real world but 130dB+ is pretty damn loud. At that point you have to ask yourself do you need more SPL? And if not do you need horns?


Made ya look

I'd make the 4 sealed 10L boxes because they'll be quick and simple compared to horns, you probably don't need the extra horn SPL. Stick a wide notch filter at ~400Hz to personal taste and cross over to your next box around 800-1000hz. Displacement is tiny there so if you wan't to EQ up the signal and have the amplifier headroom to do so then you can. You won't go much higher than this even with a horn because the roll off is related to the drivers inductance.

And you get the bonuses of a sealed box of predictable behavior + easy integration to system, and Qts=0.7 should give decent transients/general good behavior. I think the only real problem (and tbh I've not thought about it much) is that 10L might be too small for a cab! But there are easy ways to reduce volume if needed. Don't forget decent lining too.


Edited by odc04r - 03 September 2018 at 7:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djeddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2018 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by odc04r odc04r wrote:

...if you trust the 101dB from manufacturer figure...


Calculating it from the TS specs (shown above, not from manufacturer) using Fs X Vas / Qes X 9.6E-8 it comes out at 98.8.
Chas n Dave : it's like Drum and Bass but with beards.             E=mc² ±3dB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2018 at 10:15pm
Eh, not too bad then. I didn't use the figure stated in the HR sims so the image shown is also calculated from 1st TS principles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Natty_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2018 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by odc04r odc04r wrote:

Eh, not too bad then. I didn't use the figure stated in the HR sims so the image shown is also calculated from 1st TS principles.

I dont know where to put trust but for some little data in front check this:





that's not the perfect measurment but give me a good idea about what is...

I get you point and Im attemped to go to the easy damnt quick solution.. but 150 is still the lower part of the sound and crossing my es18bph that are up to some super scoop is not an easy thing for 12"s. 
The measurement to me more than some law, show me some aspect of how the speaker react and to me needs some little eq and some boost from the loading in the lower part... from 500hz is louder clear and nice, nice transient!
I can put  1200w into 4ohm for each couple of 12" or 1800w@4ohm same config.

Tell me the truth, I can go far from an acceptable result with the horn? lol




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