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SnailSpace View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SnailSpace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2023 at 10:37pm

Ok so I’ve had a rethink and bought a few bargains (fools rush in!)

I suppose I should explain how I intend to use the system - it will mainly be used at home but I also intend to take it to small venues.

At home it will be a x2 stack (Half/One Side/I.e Left Side) and at venues as a x4 stack (full stack one place)

I will no longer be including the Jamos in the new line up.

So below is a new list of what I have. I’m open to suggestions on how to best configure or what to add to the unloaded cabs!

I have 8 OUT’s!


HIGH/HORNS: 

X2 Peavey RX22 

Frequency Response: 650 Hz to 20,000 Hz

Recommended Crossover: 1200 Hz at 12 dB / Octave

Lowest Recommended Crossover: 1000 Hz at 12 dB / Octave

Sensitivity: 107 dB / 1W 1m

https://peavey.com/rx-22-ct-driver/p/03616190


UPPER MIDS:

x2 12” Flare Cabinets Unloaded

(Bought as an option, I’ve seen them in some Sound System stacks in Mid Sections. I’m not even sure if ‘Flare’ is the correct term? They have two curves that lead to a vertical opening set back. These are for 12” but I’m wondering if they could they even host my Horns if mounted Vertically?)


UPPER MIDS:

x2 12” x2 Cabinets Unloaded

(Front facing dual cabinets)


LOW MIDS:

Cabs: Don’t have yet but thinking of x2 15” Dual Boxes.

x4 - 15” Peavey Black Widow 

(1508-4 SPS BWX SPKR 4ohm)

Usable freq. range: 40 Hz ~ 2 kHz

Sensitivity: 97.5 dB / 1 W 1 m

They are 500w continuous/1000w program/2000w peak.

https://peavey.com/black-widow-1508-4-sps-bwx-speaker/p/00560140


W BINS:

x2 15” Unloaded W Bins

(Again bought as an option, I thought I may use these for when the kids are in bed and I want less Bass ;) Could I put these in Ch 7 and the (below) EV Subs in Ch 8? With the option of turning off EV Subs or running together when suits - if so would the W Bins need the same drivers as EV Subs if they go into same amp?


BASS:

EV Sub - Cubo Style

x4 - 15”

Eminence Kappa Pro 15 - 500W 15" Driver

Specification:

Nominal Basket Diameter 15", 381mm

Nominal Impedance* 8 ohms

Power Rating, Watts: 500W, Music Program: 1000W

Resonance 47Hz

Usable Frequency Range 46Hz - 4kHz

Sensitivity*** 101dB

Magnet Weight 80 oz.

Gap Height 0.37", 9.53mm

Voice Coil Diameter 3", 76.2mm



Edited by SnailSpace - 26 March 2023 at 10:42pm
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Conanski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2023 at 12:03am
Kappa Pro 15's are mid-bass drivers.. not sub.Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2023 at 12:15am
I see 2 different systems here.

System 1
PV Horns highs
12's reflex loaded upper mids
PV15's reflex loaded bass-mids
18" reflex loaded subs

System 2
PV Horns highs
12" horn upper mids
15" W bin bass-mid
18" Cubo subs

The idea is to keep some consistency of design with the whole rig, a fully reflex loaded rig may look a bit boring but it's easy to build and will just work in all kind of places from big to small. The all horn rig should get louder but it will be a lot more work to dial in.. you can't just throw any driver in a horn and get good results. 



Edited by Conanski - 27 March 2023 at 1:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SnailSpace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2023 at 10:54am

1.) A reflex loaded rig? I’ve searched to find out what this actually means and I can’t find definitive answer?


2.) So the ‘12” Horn Upper Mid Cabs & 15” W Bins Bass Mids’ amplify any driver put in? 

Meaning the specifications go out of the window making it harder to calculate frequency ranges for crossovers?


3.) So in systems where you do see a mix of cabs how have they ‘dialed in’ or calculated the frequencies? Trial, error & ear or calculated at design stage? Is there a formula for box type/measurements with driver specifications? Is there a range of where High/Upper Mid/Lower Mid/Bass should sit/exist?


4.) Given what I have and discounting the Jamo Drivers & new box styles - what sort of 12” Driver should I be looking at to sit above Lower Mid & Bass drivers I have? A certain frequency range? (I just don’t see sense in using the Jamo drivers and storing the cabs if I can sell them whole and them be of use to someone)



Edited by SnailSpace - 28 March 2023 at 10:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2023 at 11:58am

Plenty of links to follow embedded in this overview.. 


https://thereaderwiki.com/en/Sound_reinforcement_system
DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2023 at 2:44pm
1.) Bass reflex is what you are calling front loaded, the drivers are mounted directly on the front of the box with 1 or more ports on the same surface, this is also called a ported speaker.. If there are no ports it is a sealed direct radiating design.


2.)  Horns add acoustic load to the driver cone so it must be more rigid and durable to not get torn up. This load also increases the electrical impedance generated by the driver so it is common to use lower impedance drivers, and if the driver is mounted in a sealed enclosure it can't dissipate heat as efficiently and can be easier to overheat. The raw driver specs don't go out the window but the ideal driver will have somewhat different specs than a bass reflex driver and the horn cabinet design determines the operating range of the speaker.. not the driver. 


3.)  All too often there was lots of trial and error, users sometimes spend years experimenting(blowing up) different drivers before finding units that work well.


4.) As I mentioned earlier, if you want to use what you have on hand you don't need any 12" drivers at all to make a functional system, either one of the 15" drivers you have will operate up to where the compression horns are crossed over. What you really lack are suitable sub-drivers. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SnailSpace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2023 at 4:12pm


I decided against buying the 18” Cubos for because of the cost of cabinets & drivers was just too expensive.

I’ve got a bit of selling to do before I add anymore and for now I’m using the trusty Jamos to listen to records in the chaos and I’m even the stuff I’ve bought could be sold or as you say could be configured into x2 systems to learn from.

I did buy the EV Cubos loaded with x4 Kappa Pro 15” Eminence Drivers (and as you say I have some how ended up with x8 Lower Mids then - oh dear).

So the EV Subs will be as low as I go for now and will function as my Bass so the stack is everything above them.

I did notice the Omegas go 46Hz - 4kHz (8ohm) and the PV BW go 40Hz-2khz (4ohm) so does this mean the PV BW go a touch lower and would be better than the Eminence mounted in the Subs?

Could I set the PV to 40-80hz (use as bass) and Omegas 80-250hz (use as Lower Mids)?



Edited by SnailSpace - 28 March 2023 at 9:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2023 at 12:25am
Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

I did buy the EV Cubos loaded with x4 Kappa Pro 15” Eminence Drivers (and as you say I have some how ended up with x8 Lower Mids then - oh dear).

So the EV Subs will be as low as I go for now and will function as my Bass so the stack is everything above them.

I did notice the Omegas go 46Hz - 4kHz (8ohm) and the PV BW go 40Hz-2khz (4ohm) so does this mean the PV BW go a touch lower and would be better than the Eminence mounted in the Subs?

Could I set the PV to 40-80hz (use as bass) and Omegas 80-250hz (use as Lower Mids)?


What Omegas? You didn't mention those before.
There are 2 slightly different Kappa Pro 15's, the 15A is a mid-bass while the 15LF is a bass driver. Which one do you have? I ask this because the driver to use in a Cubo would be the LF version, the other one might only take 100w at those frequencies. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2023 at 2:39am
Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

I did notice the Omegas go 46Hz - 4kHz (8ohm) and the PV BW go 40Hz-2khz (4ohm) so does this mean the PV BW go a touch lower and would be better than the Eminence mounted in the Subs?


The 2 specs that indicates if a driver may be suitable as a subwoofer is xmax and motor strength(BL) and in both cases more is better, in general anything below 5-6mm xmax is not suitable. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SnailSpace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2023 at 12:48pm

I found the model number stickers. The x4 EV Cubo Subs came loaded with (vintage) x2 Omega Pro 15A (151038B-EP 67-0346A 0005) (Red Planet Gold Label) & x2 Kappa Pro 15LF-2 (151829A-EP 67-0346C 0036) (Blue Planet Logo on Gold Label) the fella I got them off was using them above his scooops as a x4 with the Omegas in the middle and the Kappas on the outer.


I’ve made life hard for myself rushing in I suppose with more selling and buying to do!


I will use the x2 15LF as my Bass as I will only be using half a side of stack initially anyway!

So I suppose I should look for another x2 Kappa Pro 15LF-2 for the other x2 EV Cubo Subs. Do you think the current version would be a good match as I cant see me getting hold of x2 of the old Blue ones I have?


Kappa 15LF-2

(BL of 17.5)

(Xmax is 6.7mm)

(8ohm)

https://eminence.com/products/kappa_pro_15lf2#specifications


Do you think the x2 Omega 15A would work in the x2 W Bins I have? Or is imepedence to high at 8ohm and Xmax at 4.8 too low?


Omega 15A

(BL 21.6)

(Xmax is 4.8mm)

(8ohm)

https://eminence.com/products/omega_pro_15a#specifications



Edited by SnailSpace - 29 March 2023 at 12:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2023 at 11:37pm
Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

So I suppose I should look for another x2 Kappa Pro 15LF-2 for the other x2 EV Cubo Subs. Do you think the current version would be a good match as I cant see me getting hold of x2 of the old Blue ones I have?
Yes that will be fine.


Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

Do you think the x2 Omega 15A would work in the x2 W Bins I have?
IIRC the Omega is a decent mid-bass horn driver so give it a try. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SnailSpace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 March 2023 at 7:44am

I know I’m trying to fit a square peg into a round hole at times and I understand using/setting the drivers as close to how they where made to be used will get the most out of them and creates the best outcome but I’m as interested in the learning side as I am with creating a perfect system.


One of the reasons I’ve ventured down this path (now questioning this choice ha!) was because of the lack of entry level information available! Probably due to the complexities of Sound System, but I’m surprised with the advent of internet & social media that some answers remain a mystery when put into a search engine!

This forum is an amazing resource & community and I appreciate the time everyone has given and you especially Conanski have put in a lot of time to answering my posts so give thanks!

 I understand gaining the knowledge also comes with time, reading, researching and hands on learning which in the past would be in the form of being a box boy. So I suppose I’m trying to make the leap into sound system without having done the apprenticeship. But as a record collector who has had a home DJ/audio set up for over 37years I’m surprised just how much of a leap it is.

Whilst Social Media might give Sound System a much needed platform I think one of the downsides of social media is that you may see a beautiful Sound System but there is no indication of the time, knowledge, hard work and money that went into it, and as with so much on the internet you rarely see the cobbled together sounds, learning curves or mistakes! 

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