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Battery powered Tham12 Sub - Update 2023-08-19 |
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roopes 
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 Topic: Battery powered Tham12 Sub - Update 2023-08-19Posted: 28 July 2023 at 6:57pm |
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Hello guys!
Im going to build a tham12 that is powered by a 48v batterypack to try to give my soundsboks 3 some more thump in the low end. This build is in no way pretty but it should still sound pretty decent! Im not in any means good at this but ill do my best and ill share the process. If you are interested in building this sub yourself you can find all the information here: https://www.martinsson.cc/blog/index.php?entry=THAM12 Plans:   Update 2023-07-28 The brain of the box, TPA3255 "600w" 48v 10ah li-ion batterypack Dayton Subwoofer DSP (self tuning) this is used to set HPF @40hz 48db  Dry fitting  Laser cut some of the bracing, worked out great but i had to glue 4x3mm plywood, very time consuming.   Update 2023-07-31 I just realised that my 48V battery is actually 54,6V when fully charged which makes it useless, the amplifier can only handle a maximum of 50v. So the plan is to try to sell the 48v battery pack and get a 36V (42V) battery pack instead. The driver arrived, and yes i understand 4 ohm is better for sound output but the 8 ohm will keep my class d amp cool and run for longer, think the 100db sensitvity will be plenty to produce some great output.  The internals are now glued togheter  Update 2023-08-01 Tried to seal all the seams before the final glue up   The extra space on top is for the amp, battery, dsp  Update 2023-08-02 Waiting for the glue to dry  Used PU glue for the last layer because it swells a lot and fills all the gaps, great product! Tuned the DSP to HPF 40hz 48db/okt and LPF 110hz 24db/okt.     This guy saved me so much time!  Almost same size as a soundboks 3  Update 2023-08-03 First time testing the tham12 and it goes loud! Things in the room started to rattle due to the bass, paired it up with the soundboks but the bass of the soundboks doesnt even come close. When i turn the volume way up and it starts to sound "wierd" thats when it distorts right? and i need more power from the amp to get rid of it? Was only running the 24v battery as a test, 36v is on the way. Im thinking of also buying a powersupply 48v 10A to get out some more power for when a power outlet is nearby.   Update 2023-08-12 New battery arrived, 36v (34-42v), this wont fry the amplifier.  Update 2023-08-19 Compared to a soundboks3 the bass is much much better and deeper, exactly what I was looking for. The tham12 moves ALOT with very little power! Super efficient Hooked up 4x 4fe32 faital pro to a 2 channel china amplifier (only using 1 channel 50w 24v) its very loud but the soundboks beats it in the amount of spl but i have ordered another tpa3255 monoblock to hook up to the faitals and a 36v battery. The goal is to get approx same spl as the soundboks3, about same size but much more bass out of it. Worst case ill add another 4 4fe32 to get an array of 8 and use a 2x300 tpa3255 amp. If that doesnt work out, ill just daisy chain the soundboks to the tham12 and happy days!  Edited by roopes - 19 August 2023 at 4:18pm |
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slaz
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Joined: 27 November 2009 Location: London E2 Status: Offline Points: 2699 |
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Posted: 29 July 2023 at 10:00pm |
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[QUOTE=roopes]Hello guys!
Im going to build a tham12 that is powered by a 48v batterypack to try to give my soundsboks 3 some more thump in the low end. This build is in no way pretty but it should still sound pretty decent! Im not in any means good at this but ill do my best and ill share the process. [/QUOTE=roopes] Yeah the Soundboks will give you lots of SPL and battery run-time .... but at quite some cost in LF (designed that way) - I find it a bit limited - but plenty of non-sound-system folk don't seem to notice or comment on it. Similar to my setup - top notch plastic 12" mid-top boxes - play down to 70 with something still there at 60 - but thin to my ears. What driver you going to use ? 8ohm ? If so - how much power do you figure on getting from that module ? - the figures quoted are for low impedance loads. Are you going to use a separate 12V-ish battery to power the DSP and the amplifiers "analogue power" ? My own quest for better LF (outdoors is a real challenge for battery systems) has got me to EV SB120 12" plastic reflex boxes (only 1 currently working) - which at 13Kg are viable for me. (I'm pushing 70 and live of 3rd floor without lift). I'd need at least 2 of these per 12" mid-top I reckon - or maybe even 3) - but I hope it'll provide at least a taste of bass outdoors. |
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roopes
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Posted: 29 July 2023 at 11:57pm |
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I've ordered a 48v to 5v USB so i can power the DSP - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002317654695.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.84.21ef1802OxnHc7 Going to use the 8 ohm B&C 12 NDL 76 Driver, with a sensitivity of 100 db - https://www.thomann.de/se/bc_12_ndl_76.htm Im not hoping for more then like 200w for the sub but I think that will be enough to complement the soundboks, or at I least hope so! Don´t quite understand the "analogue" think you mention, the amp is going to be driven by the 48v and the dsp 5v, do i need anything else?
Edited by roopes - 30 July 2023 at 12:00am |
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slaz
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Joined: 27 November 2009 Location: London E2 Status: Offline Points: 2699 |
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Posted: 30 July 2023 at 3:11pm |
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I've ordered a 48v to 5v USB so i can power the DSP - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002317654695.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.84.21ef1802OxnHc7 Going to use the 8 ohm B&C 12 NDL 76 Driver, with a sensitivity of 100 db - https://www.thomann.de/se/bc_12_ndl_76.htm Im not hoping for more then like 200w for the sub but I think that will be enough to complement the soundboks, or at I least hope so! Don´t quite understand the "analogue" think you mention, the amp is going to be driven by the 48v and the dsp 5v, do i need anything else?
/[QUOTE] OK you might wanna watch out for earth loops with that DC->5V non-isolating converter. Is that B&C driver known/tested for bass duty ? Looks very much like its really a mid-bass driver for 2-way boxes ..... and I'm fairly sure that 100dB sensitivity is not in (or anywhere near) efficiency in the relevant pass-band (but maybe the efficency of the loading will make up for that). Oh yeah - that "analogue power" is something I spotted in the chip-amp's application notes (never seen that module before, so I had a quick look) - it'll be provided from on-board the module I guess. |
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roopes
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Posted: 30 July 2023 at 9:07pm |
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Well in worst case ill use a powerbank to run the DSP but i hope that wont be necessary. And about the driver i have seen a lot of videos on youtube were they use the B&C 12 NDL 76 in the tham12 and are very happy with the result, so i hope it works good, the hornresp simulation (1PI) looks good to me.  Edited by roopes - 30 July 2023 at 9:18pm |
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slaz
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Posted: 31 July 2023 at 1:47am |
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Yeah well I like to (where its fairly easy/straightforward) to power my bits of "outboard" gear independently - the tiny Berry mixer I have (302USB - al little honey BTW) gets USB power from a small basic powerbank - easily lasts the whole day. My DSP has its own 4S Lifepo4 battery pack - and it draws >0.5A - so a bit of grunt reqd. to play for several hours. Takes a bit of patience to manage all those friggin batteries really .... but somehow it makes me feel good :-) Seems like your DSP might draw over 1A - mebbe 2A, so might require a fairly strong powerbank.
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slaz
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Posted: 31 July 2023 at 1:54am |
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Yeah that THAM12 looks the business if that SIM is anywhere the real world. Impressed by the NDL76 in that case. I'd love to hear it .... would you play the soundboks right down to 60-70 or so - or bring it in at 100 or so/whatever ? Looks like quite a bit of plywood to lug around though - gonna weigh a good deal more than the Soundboks though - surely. Too much for me for sure ...
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roopes
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Posted: 31 July 2023 at 7:21am |
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I would like to it are like 140 but I don’t know how really, I’m going to Daisy chain the soundboks 3,5mm out to the DSP 3,5mm in on the tham12. And what I have heard the sim doesn’t tell you the whole truth, it plays like 10hz lower in real life Yea it will weigh around 15-20kg so it’s a little bit heavier than the soundboks but not that much. I’ll weigh it when it’s finished, just got my driver delivered 🙏🏻 And for the powerbank for the DSP it doesn’t have to be that big, it draws 0,4A at 5v that’s only 2 watts per hour. A single 18650 at 3ah (3,7v) is 11,1wh would last 5+ hours.
Edited by roopes - 31 July 2023 at 7:31am |
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APW
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Joined: 13 November 2012 Location: Kent, UK Status: Offline Points: 1152 |
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Posted: 31 July 2023 at 9:31am |
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I normally run my Tham 12s up to 100Hz, but have in the past tried 110 and 120hz.. they sound very good at 100hz, good to OK at 110hz and like a woofer in a drainpipe at 120Hz!! … the sim only tells you half the story.
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slaz
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Posted: 31 July 2023 at 12:48pm |
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Ah - I was just gonna point out that Blue Aran in the UK seem to have the 4ohm version in stock - definitely more suited to battery power systems ....
Edited by slaz - 31 July 2023 at 12:49pm |
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roopes
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Posted: 31 July 2023 at 4:48pm |
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Update 2023-07-31 in first post
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slaz
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Posted: 01 August 2023 at 7:23am |
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Yep - that looks very much like a battery pack meant for electric bikes. Is it Li-Po (slab cells) or 18650 (Li-ON cylinder cells) ? Either way, the full-charge voltage will be substantially higher than the "nominal" voltage ... I think some of the "48V" ones are actually 13S - so that 48V (13 x 3.7 = 48.1) - but 13 x 4.2 for full charge = 54.6. With the "24V" ones its often 7S for 7 x 3.7 = 25.9, but 7 x 4.2 = 29.4 ... which is just the job for some of the TPA3116 chip amps. But some are also just 6S for 22.2 nominal, but 25.2 FCV - good (I think) for TPA3118 chips .... Also - does your 48V battery have built-in BMS ? I can't see any balance wires exting from it in your pic - which would imply there is a BMS. If so - then a standard 48V electric bike charger will do fine. One thing to watch out for (if you're not particularly clued up on lithium batteries) is :- Do NOT store that battery at FCV (full charge voltage) for any length of time at all - when its not gonna get used for a while, keep it at somewhere around nominal voltage. This is very important - and something I learned the hard way - the cells will start to "gas up" ... at which point there's nothing to do with em apart from bin and replace em. Nasty. |
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slaz wrote: