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B&C 21SW152 and 21DS115 long term power handling |
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gen0me
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Joined: 20 February 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 995 |
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 5:55pm |
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Strange that you dont heat them long term. You could measure impedance before and during/just after the test and outside temperature.
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Ricci
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Joined: 13 March 2017 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 74 |
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 6:21pm |
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It is very demanding. The reason it is done like this is an effort to produce an accelerated heat buildup. I don't have time or the area for a whole other setup for much longer thermal compression testing over many hours with pink noise. This type of thing is already done with AES testing anyway. Also it will change drastically depending on the enclosure used and signal applied. This type is more abusive over the short term but not as abusive as applying a sine wave at a worst case frequency. At tuning for a vented cab for instance. Most drivers seem to bounce back from being driven to 3-4dB of thermal compression once or twice. I'm not sure that would be the case if heated that much many times. Of course I've burnt up some drivers and also broken some mechanically with this type of test. Using that type of signal also pushes the speaker extremely hard at all of its weak points in the sub bandwidth so it reveals a lot of warts, distortion and other bad distortions or sonic issues. Often driver excursion becomes a limiting factor right at about the time the driver is running into serious thermal issues. Whichever one throws up a flag becomes the limit for that test type. |
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logsquared1
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Joined: 09 February 2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Posted: 20 October 2017 at 9:04pm |
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Don't be scared Pedal to the metal![]() Seriously though, If your not putting at least 4Kw peak RMS to a 21SW152 you might as well get a cheaper woofer. |
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Crashpc
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Joined: 26 February 2008 Location: Czech Republic Status: Offline Points: 539 |
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Posted: 21 October 2017 at 6:19am |
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Well, if I rather listen to "square wave music", 2500 seems to be okay. :-D
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Nikon and Canon people should not be married to each other. Why did you let this happen?
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Sirius Sounds
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Joined: 19 March 2017 Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Posted: 21 October 2017 at 10:59pm |
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What's 4kW peak rms? Is it peak or rms?! I was planning on putting about 2k7 rms and i think thats about 4k peak for my amp.
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logsquared1
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Joined: 09 February 2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Posted: 21 October 2017 at 11:55pm |
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The available wattage calculated from the maximum RMS voltage capability of the amplifier. Roughly .707 X the Rail voltage. Or the "continuous program" rating used by most woofer manufacturers.
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ReubGold
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Joined: 09 April 2012 Location: Essex/JA Status: Offline Points: 271 |
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Posted: 22 October 2017 at 11:12am |
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If you have sufficient mains supply, would think 2x 4 ohm drivers per channel of 9001, each cab with it's own pair of 4mm2 conductors, should do the job, for reasonably sensitive drivers. |
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If he turns me into a zombie, first person I'm coming after is you.
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Crashpc
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Joined: 26 February 2008 Location: Czech Republic Status: Offline Points: 539 |
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Posted: 28 January 2019 at 1:34pm |
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Hey. Digging old corpses I guess... In B&C, they say they put more wire into the magnetic gap with 21DS115, for motor strength. I still cannot wrap my head around how they did it. The math doesn´t work here (Resistance, wire diameter and length) for me. Looks like it is not possible with Aluminium. Yet they did it somehow. That is not the topic though. The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that the Al coil must be beefy one. Significantly greater wire diameter and volume than with Copper. And thicker coil body too, obviously. That might mean good things for cooling capabilities, couldn´t it? Greater coil area and volume/heat capacity. And the weight is also there. Mms of 21DS115 is greater than with 21SW115. The 21SW152 doesn´t have much more coil area than 21DS115, and that is not counting for split coil of 21SW152. It might be, that the coil area of 21DS115 is the same as 21SW152, despite significant difference in the coil diameter. That would certainly make Ricci´s tests slightly less "unbelievable". |
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Nikon and Canon people should not be married to each other. Why did you let this happen?
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Andry
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Joined: 14 March 2024 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 29 |
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Posted: 13 October 2025 at 5:46pm |
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I know it's an old topic, I just want to add the info on 21DS115 coil :
Quoted from : https://data-bass.com/drivers/5af4b3c1e8c90b0004781fa9
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Crashpc
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Joined: 26 February 2008 Location: Czech Republic Status: Offline Points: 539 |
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Posted: 14 October 2025 at 6:11am |
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Yes, I am aware. The totality of things might add up. Though understand that thicker wire and more layers on the coil means bigger gap and loss of flux. So doubling the wire doesn't mean double Bl just like that. But obviously, here we are, 21DS115 happened, it works.
In time, these drivers BOTH rose and dropped in my evaluations. In my usage, it is not enough coil, and 2000+ model is very needed, in order to work its purpose. On the other hand, for peaks, with these kinds of Bl, in 21" size it starts to show "that scary" bass, and it is able to blur my vision when I turn my back to it. So it is not that bad. In the meantime,many thongs moved and changed. I have tested many more speakers, Celestion TSQ2460 arrived yesterday, and soon I am deploying a review platform.
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Nikon and Canon people should not be married to each other. Why did you let this happen?
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